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One thing I find problematic with games like Jedi Knight 2 and such is that the layouts of places and ships in these games makes no sense. Not even including the absence of handrails, the levels seem more like a random mishmash than a coherent design that actual people would use every day. How come no one paid attention to these details?

Much more a gaming topic.

Off you go little thread.

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FPS always have shit layouts. Corridors for no reason, few rooms, poorly design rooms, vertically stacked levels that aren't the same size, don't line up, etc, interiors too big for exteriors, unecessary meat packing factories, no beds, etc.

Level designers aren't concerned with realism, just kewlness. More architects need to design levels, plainly; its the realistic details that make levels good (look at Angelhearts work, for instance).

I find that rarely without fail, the only FPS's that have realisitic/logical level layouts are FPS's that are designed to be realistic, such as "tactical shooters" like Rainbow Six 3...

The main problem I have with most if not all Star Wars FPS's is that the blaster bolts always seem pathetically weak to what they should be and they seem to move too slowly as well (compared to the movies). Also, lacking the ability to change the power level of your blasters in SW FPS's is a real let down.

Despite being visually beatiful, Metroid Prime series is quite guilty of this.

This is why games need to start using Geomod again. Bad architecture can be BLOWN TO HOWLING SHRAPNEL in retaliation.

Well, Jedi Knight 2 is a pretty old game. Newer releases like Half Life 2 and Far Cry, while not great examples of real world architecture and layout, are more convincing.

Half-Life 2, at least when showing regular cityscapes, is extremely convincing. There's a bit of overabundance of fences and barriers in alleyways, but it's to be expected.

Star Wars games are particularly bad, though, in a genre chock full of bad examples. Like in the first Dark Forces, the interior of the Super Star Destroyer was just atrocious. There's NO WAY to get around without running through conveyor belts and such?

And what was up with the communications room above the bottomless pit in Outcast?

Oh God, you're right. Dark Forces was just horrible from the perspective of realism.

Well unrealistic levels don't bother me (unless we're talking about thing like the Jedi Outcast communication room.), what bothers me in SW games in is uninteractive environment (even Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had interactive environment only in some places). In way that explain the difference between the Dark and Light side, Dark jedi would hack his/her way thru a door where as a Jedi would try to find a key or different way in.

montypython wrote:Not even including the absence of handrails

Hey, the DS didnt had many handrails either. Probably a matter of budget

The person in the Star Wars galaxy that comes up with handrails will become super rich. I expect the accident rate in the Imperial Navy to plummet down once they make those bottomless pits safer to be around around.

Lord Revan wrote:In way that explain the difference between the Dark and Light side, Dark jedi would hack his/her way thru a door where as a Jedi would try to find a key or different way in.

Last time I checked, Qui-gon Jinn was not tainted by the Dark Side, and he's the only one we see hacking through a door. Luke Skywalker hacked through the belly of a AT-AT.

On the other side, Darth Vader's environment-rearrangement in TESB was mainly by force-touch on control panels, comparatively subtle. The other main incidents are unintentional -- the byproduct of his force-throwing the boxes (destroying the window), and a lightsaber-swing miss.

Icehawk wrote:The main problem I have with most if not all Star Wars FPS's is that the blaster bolts always seem pathetically weak to what they should be and they seem to move too slowly as well (compared to the movies). Also, lacking the ability to change the power level of your blasters in SW FPS's is a real let down.

Shadows of the Empire did sort of cover the speed issue: IIRC, blaster bolts flew at a fairly reasonable speed compared to the slugs of current games. Of course, it did fall prey to the other side of your gripe, then also introduced that mucky special weapons system...

drachefly wrote:Last time I checked, Qui-gon Jinn was not tainted by the Dark Side, and he's the only one we see hacking through a door. Luke Skywalker hacked through the belly of a AT-AT.

Case sensitivity, I'm thinking: in both cases, the subject involved was in dire need of a way to get to something, and had little time to go looking for a key or over-ride of sorts. In a generally-peaceful area where all hostiles had been eliminatedm a Light Jedi would go look for the key because it's the normal course of things, and since they have nothing breathing down their neck to prompt them to other actions: a Dark Jedi, on the other hand, being an impatient, destructive, and chaotic little bastard, would rather just cleave through the door and start the killing.

drachefly wrote:Last time I checked, Qui-gon Jinn was not tainted by the Dark Side, and he's the only one we see hacking through a door. Luke Skywalker hacked through the belly of a AT-AT.

Well belly of APC or bridge of battleship are not were you too many enterences and both of them were also pressed for time. What talking about is situation were you have all time in the world to look for a key, an override or a unlocked door. a Dark Jedi would cut thru the door or use the Force to pummel the door something(or somebody).

Wanna know the REAL travesty of SW FPS games? They nixed the Concussion Rifle and it's beautiful "BWAH!!!" sound after the first Jedi Knight. That gun was friggin' awesome.

And yeah, lightsabers should allow you to cut through almost anything. Maybe set it so that it takes a minute to cut through a door, leaving you vulnerable while you do?

Its a dark side power to cut through a door instead of looking for a key? Thats laughable. Ridiculous. Ludicrous. Its just lame. Especially since you're doing it to save the world; I bet its the dark side if you barge a door down to save a child from a burning house. Christ.

And I always though geomod style-deforming had huge multiplayer lag issues?

EDIT - house, even

Sadly, it can....but the ability to blow bits of the map to shrieking shrapnel is sexy. It'd make a great game to focus on LAN-based multiplayer, this internet stuff can hang

Red faction version was poor tho; if you det packed enough into the rock, it'd close up behind you! You could hide forever!

Oddly, I saw some ut2004 geomod stuff right after it came out, but its not used in any mods. I wonder what the issue is; I ran it on a 8bot/4player map, used it to dig foxholes and antitank ditches and shit, and it didn't slow down (well, it did when you looked at it) or get synch issues. Boo hiss!

Maybe the new Star wars FPS will be better

SPOOFE wrote:Wanna know the REAL travesty of SW FPS games? They nixed the Concussion Rifle and it's beautiful "BWAH!!!" sound after the first Jedi Knight. That gun was friggin' awesome.

I'm not sure about the sound thing, but Jedi Academy does feature a (new design?) Concussion Rifle.

That's good to hear, at least, though I haven't played Jedi Academy (tried the demo, wasn't terribly impressed, especially after Outcast). But if it doesn't have the Bwah, it's not the same rifle.

BWAH!!

Icehawk wrote:The main problem I have with most if not all Star Wars FPS's is that the blaster bolts always seem pathetically weak to what they should be and they seem to move too slowly as well (compared to the movies). Also, lacking the ability to change the power level of your blasters in SW FPS's is a real let down.

I should point out that all games are like that. If it were realistic, you would die from the first handgun shot in practically any game excepting Metroid Prime and Halo (since those games have uber-armor).

Stark wrote:Red faction version was poor tho; if you det packed enough into the rock, it'd close up behind you! You could hide forever!

Oddly, I saw some ut2004 geomod stuff right after it came out, but its not used in any mods. I wonder what the issue is; I ran it on a 8bot/4player map, used it to dig foxholes and antitank ditches and shit, and it didn't slow down (well, it did when you looked at it) or get synch issues. Boo hiss!

Apparently Red Orchestra had it. The problem was that when players joined in the middle of the round, the damage to the landscape was not visible on their machines.