NFL and EA

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2004-12-13 09:44pm

This sucks for us who like ESPN

link

I like madden but i feel that the ESPN 2k5 was the better game and i am disappointed that we will have to play madden from now on

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-12-14 01:21am

Not like you're being forced to buy the next Madden. This will only matter if things like player names and stadium names matter.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2004-12-14 01:57am

Vohu Manah wrote:Not like you're being forced to buy the next Madden. This will only matter if things like player names and stadium names matter.

Not necessarily true. These games get little upgrades here and there to improve gameplay and such. ESPN was always good at trying something new and making the game a little bit more interesting each year, with last year's helmet cam viewpoint being the most prominent example I can remember. Some years ESPN did a really nice years, other years not so much.

This move sucks for consumers, because now the Madden series really doesn't have to work as hard to improve the game. The ESPN series really pushed Madden to develop more significant improvements than mere facelifts.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2004-12-14 02:29pm

Vohu Manah wrote:Not like you're being forced to buy the next Madden. This will only matter if things like player names and stadium names matter.

Yeah, and none of that stuff is important to a football game

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-12-14 02:54pm

Sorry never liked ESPN(And come to think of it I started disliking the latest Madden's)

But ANY sports game, Football or not which will do my job FOR me I dislike, espcilly if I can't turn it off

Case in point, toss yourself a pass in ESPN switch to that play move him once then towards the goal line a bit, give it a second or two and then put down the controller... whats this? He starts running for the goal line agian? Yep and if you decided to run aginst your route sometimes your guy will double back(Disastorusly in some cases when the carrier goes the oppsite direction of your route)

That and I can't even randomly tackle folks anymore(One of the funnist after play parts of the earily Madden's was clobbering the mook who just scored the touch down aginst you mid-dance)

I don't get penlized, I just simply can't do it

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2004-12-14 06:19pm

I'm a Die Hard Madden fan (I started playing it when I was 7 with Madden '93, and have almost every year on one platform or another), but I don't like this. It will just mean less competition for Madden....and you know what that means: Possible price hike, and no real incentive to improve upon the game. I have faith that the boys at EA Sports will keep making a quality product, but still.......

Who knows, ESPN might have a chance to stick around. Look at the NCAA Franchise (from EA Sports). No names, but you still know who people are and it's fun. It'll be tough though....

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-12-14 06:49pm

I love Madden, but ESPN was really pushing EA to improve its franchise in recent years, especially presentation-wise. I always liked Madden's game play better (HIT STICK!!! HIT STICK!!!), but ESPN was really innovating the presentation of the game, and important as solid gameplay is, a nice looking game counts too. Shame on EA for responding to competition by using its leverage to gain a monopoly instead of improving its product.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2004-12-14 08:36pm

Y'know...theoretically...this kinda violates anti-trust law, since it's an exclusive contract. If we actually had a trade commission that cared about enforcing the law, ESPN could sue the NFL, NFLPA, and EA. Each would have to pay triple damages, so ESPN would recieve nine times their predicted revenues for an NFL 2k6 that they could have released.

If only that fucktard Reagan hadn't weakened our anti-trust policy to the point that it's virtually invisible.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-12-14 09:10pm

The question would be is is anything stopping ESPN, Sega, and anyone else from releasing a generic football game? Assuming they maintained a $20 price point, they could probably still compete to a degree. A generic football game, even lacking details covered by a NFL license, would hopefully sell if it were a quality product (not to mention the sheer number of gamers who will purchase it to spite both the NFL and EA).

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2004-12-14 09:49pm

Vohu Manah wrote:The question would be is is anything stopping ESPN, Sega, and anyone else from releasing a generic football game? Assuming they maintained a $20 price point, they could probably still compete to a degree. A generic football game, even lacking details covered by a NFL license, would hopefully sell if it were a quality product (not to mention the sheer number of gamers who will purchase it to spite both the NFL and EA).

:Sigh: ok one thing about football games is that people play them because of the License. You seem to not be grasping the point here. People play them because they want authenticity of the NFL. For the Names, stadiums Teams and gear. Whats stopping Sega and ESPN from putting out a Generic Football game? Money. Putting the money into a Football game that is Dominated by Madden would be Suicide. ESPN and Sega Did really good this Year because they Challenge Madden by a budget price and creating an overall better game for once but that still didn't Top Madden on the sales charts now did it. With out the license Sega and ESPN wouldn't have a chance and they (Sega anyway) would lose a ton of money. You get it.

Vohu Manah · Post by **Vohu Manah** » 2004-12-14 11:22pm

thecreech wrote::Sigh: ok one thing about football games is that people play them because of the License. You seem to not be grasping the point here. People play them because they want authenticity of the NFL. For the Names, stadiums Teams and gear.

Not necessarily, a license may not make or break a franchise. I personally could care less for the license, you obviously do. This is a matter of opinion.

The Def Jam (Vendetta and Fight for NY) wrestling/fighting games, for instance, obviously lack a WWE license, but they still sell very well. True, the game is backed by Def Jam Recordings (and subsidiaries), but wouldn't you say that lacking a WWE license didn't seem to hurt them? What about the Fire Pro Wrestling games (arguably a more appropriate example)?

And though I have stated I could care less about the license, and all that it entails, I would agree with you that many would make a purchase solely for the license. THQ makes a mint selling WWE-licensed titles, even when they are arguably mediocre (matter of opinion).

thecreech wrote:Whats stopping Sega and ESPN from putting out a Generic Football game? Money. Putting the money into a Football game that is Dominated by Madden would be Suicide. ESPN and Sega Did really good this Year because they Challenge Madden by a budget price and creating an overall better game for once but that still didn't Top Madden on the sales charts now did it. With out the license Sega and ESPN wouldn't have a chance and they (Sega anyway) would lose a ton of money. You get it.

There was obviously enough money to be made challenging the Madden series to risk a price war this year. There was obviously enough money to be made challenging the franchise in past years. Madden was never that dominate.

Plenty of generic football games have been made, and sold well in previous console eras, so what has changed? If Sega and ESPN don't want to take the risk that is their business, but they can't blame EA. I'm sure either Sega or ESPN will have enough of an audience if they decided to take the risk.

And just because I found this quote interesting:

Gamespot.com wrote:...

The deal, one EA admits to having lobbied for over the past few years, is an exclusive five-year licensing deal granting EA the sole rights to the NFL's teams, stadiums, and players. However, the publisher and Players Inc. denied a similar deal was in the works in May 2004, even requesting publications that ran the story run public retractions.

...

The deal is obviously bad news for EA's competitors, particularly ESPN Videogames, Sega, and Take-Two, who stole a respectable chunk of EA's Madden Football market with their NFL 2K series and it's budget price tag this year of $19.99.

Arguably, the deal will impact consumers negatively as well. With less choice, theories of competition no longer apply. Some industry insiders speculate the exclusive deal was embraced by the NFL after it saw Take-Two lower the price of its 2K5 product earlier this year. No licensor likes to see a price war being fought with its brand value at stake. At the same time, exclusive licenses in the sports world are more the norm than nonexclusive licenses. The NFL's apparel license is a Reebok exclusive, as is its beverage license with Gatorade.

...

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/12/13 ... 14977.html

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2004-12-15 12:05am

Vohu Manah wrote:
thecreech wrote::Sigh: ok one thing about football games is that people play them because of the License. You seem to not be grasping the point here. People play them because they want authenticity of the NFL. For the Names, stadiums Teams and gear.
Not necessarily, a license may not make or break a franchise. I personally could care less for the license, you obviously do. This is a matter of opinion.

An opinion shared by the vast majority of people who buy football video games. Part of why these games are so popular is because the player can immerse himself in the game and feel like he's really controlling NFL stars. They want to pretend they're Peyton Manning throwing to Edgarrin James in the RCA Dome, not QB Joe Schmoe throwing to WR John Doe in Generic Indianapolis Stadium.

Not to mention, if you're into playing franchise mode, where you play like you're running a real team, it's far more compelling with real players, because it's much easier to imagine you're a real NFL GM making these decisions. Also, it's a lot easier to make decisions when you have an idea of how well a player will preform just by knowing his name. You know if you trade for Donovan McNabb, you'll get a fast, elusive quarterback who can scramble for 40 yards, has an insanely powerful arm, but sometimes throws the ball into the ground or over his reciver's heads. If all the players are generic, that means hours of wading through stats to figure that out.

The Def Jam (Vendetta and Fight for NY) wrestling/fighting games, for instance, obviously lack a WWE license, but they still sell very well. True, the game is backed by Def Jam Recordings (and subsidiaries), but wouldn't you say that lacking a WWE license didn't seem to hurt them? What about the Fire Pro Wrestling games (arguably a more appropriate example)?

Def Jam is hardly an approppriate example at all: one of its selling points is that it features real rappers as the wrestlers. It's the same thing Madden does with a slightly different twist.

As for Fire Pro Wrestling, the series is arguably better than anything liscensed by the WWE, and guess what? It has a fraction of the WWE games' market share. This is fine if you're BAM! Entertainment and you're catering to a niche market that will walk past a WWE game to pick up a better quality wrestling game. This is not good at all if you're SEGA/ESPN/Take 2 and your market strategy is to directly compete with EA on its own turf. The NFL 2k series is SEGA sports's flagship franchise, and it is--or was--a damn good one.

And though I have stated I could care less about the license, and all that it entails, I would agree with you that many would make a purchase solely for the license. THQ makes a mint selling WWE-licensed titles, even when they are arguably mediocre (matter of opinion).

Try the vast majority of the people who buy football video games. You might not care about the liscense, but you're in a very small minority. And without the money that a liscense would have made Take Two, they're not going to invest in improving their product, if indeed they can even afford to. Without a competitor, there's no reason for EA to do anything but give Madden a facelift and update the rosters every year. It's bad for everyone who likes football games.

There was obviously enough money to be made challenging the Madden series to risk a price war this year. There was obviously enough money to be made challenging the franchise in past years. Madden was never that dominate.

They could challenge because they had a quality game, lots of money backing them up (Take Two Interactive has another little franchise called Grand Theft Auto--you might have heard of it), AND THE LICENSE. They were able to cut into Madden's market share by offering features Madden didn't, while at the same time selling authentic NFL gameplay. Now they can't do that.

Plenty of generic football games have been made, and sold well in previous console eras, so what has changed?

Temco released Temco Bowl for the NES, liscensed by the NFLPA and featuring real players, in 1989. That's what changed. There hasn't been a viable generic football game on the market in 15 years.

If Sega and ESPN don't want to take the risk that is their business, but they can't blame EA. I'm sure either Sega or ESPN will have enough of an audience if they decided to take the risk.

They won't go near it. SEGA is barely staying afloat and has other sports franchises it's trying to keep alive, also competing with EA (their NBA series is just as good as EA's, but basketball games don't sell nearly as well as football). ESPN has better things to do with its money than pour it down a rathole. 989 Sports, the other big company competing in the football market, will also pull out (not that that's any great loss). With this deal, EA has turned football video games into a one-man show for the next five years at least.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2004-12-15 01:41am

RedImperator wrote: SNIP

Thanks Red, i was typing out basicaly the same thing. Either way

Either way Vohn, You are generalizing this to much. Comparing a football game to a wrestling game is miles apart. Overall all it is just bad for football gamers in general. Not only that but Sega would have to completely make up teams for there game as the license extends to the Teams as well. EA gets lazy when there is no competition. Sega keeps them in check but without that there really isn't much that is going to push them. Shit Madden sucked ass during the 32bit age until 989 sports kicked in and after that was dying down Sega came in and EA kicked it up again.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-12-15 04:08pm

"We chose EA based on game quality, marketing ability and track record."

Game quality was never the issue, but the ESPN series of games has been marketed well and has sold well too. The reason seems to be that the ESPN series won't bankrupt you, with their fucking awesome $20 price tag, verse EA's $50 one. If there's no ESPN series, we will have to buy the more expensive game...

Those fuckers.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2004-12-15 04:24pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:"We chose EA based on game quality, marketing ability and track record."

Game quality was never the issue, but the ESPN series of games has been marketed well and has sold well too. The reason seems to be that the ESPN series won't bankrupt you, with their fucking awesome $20 price tag, verse EA's $50 one. If there's no ESPN series, we will have to buy the more expensive game...

Those fuckers.

The 20 price tag works prefect for sports games because there is a new one every year and it gets expensive. It was a great idea and i hope (althought not likely) that EA will price Madden lower than 50. And we will have a ESPN sports series but not football (i am guessing)

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2004-12-15 07:26pm

Another good thing about ESPN games: They usually come out before the EA Sports counterparts. If I'm not mistaken, NFL 2K5 came out weeks (if not a month or two?) before Madden. They really had a nice niche market going for those who didn't want to pay a lot, and wanted their football fix before the season started. Not anymore. Bastards.