StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Its out, its awesome, and your teammates are FUCKING PSYCHOS.

The graphics are equivalent to the BEST on the market today, sound is top notch and the AI, IMO is absolutely brilliant (4 hours of gameplay and I've only had 1 AI flaw and even that was a minor one - two guys got hung up on a door, it took them about a second to fix it by one backing off and letting the other through).

Though, it must be said that your teammates are a little more zealous than in the previous SWAT games. For example:

Suspect *runs out of doorway carrying a beretta and starts running AWAY from the team making panicked noises*

Red Team leader "SUSPECT!" *puts a 2 in the body and one in the head*...

Me "Fuck, there goes the perfect mission score."

Other cool things - TASERS! Thats right, you can send your team in with tasers! And if you really want to have fun, one you've restrained a suspect you can still taser him! LAPD forever (though, there is no nightstick, there is however pepperspray in the full game).

GET THIS DEMO. Its awesome.

I know someone who has it, but last I heard you had to be a fileplanet subscriber to get it?

EDIT: Never mind, you're right. I finally get it on my computer. w00t!

My highest score in the demo mission so far has been 93/100 (lost points for taking a shot in the chest - thank christ for kevlar, and for failing to secure a weapon - which the guy dropped into a wall as far as I could tell).

I also used the quick mission builder to put 25 suspects with handguns in the building and then set about trying to taser or stingball ALL of them into submission. That was funny.

Is the uber-ballistics from SWAT 3 still present? Man SWAT 3 kicked so much ass.

This game is so awesome. It keeps everything that made SWAT 3 good and improves upon it. Anyone who doesn't get this game loses the right to call himself a true gamer.

Vympel wrote:Is the uber-ballistics from SWAT 3 still present? Man SWAT 3 kicked so much ass.

Not sure - but then again, I haven't been playing around with 5.56FMJ... BECAUSE THE LESS LETHALS ARE SOOOOO MUCH MORE FUN! I'll have to start testing, unfortunately it doesn't have the SWAT3 "killing house" with the various blocks of materials to line up and try shooting (at least, not in the demo).

And I don't like the new squad command interface, though I am getting more efficient with it - I far preferred the original SWAT3 one - more rapid control.

There's a toggle in the options to use the SWAT 3 style interface instead.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:There's a toggle in the options to use the SWAT 3 style interface instead.

Tried it - its just the same interface as the mouse one but you use the number keys instead (which makes item/weapon selection, well, difficult) - not to mention that the menu system for it is pointless.

Using the tab (switch teams) and the mouse controls I'm getting better at it...

"BLUE TEAM TASER HIM!"

"RED TEAM - GIVE 'EM A LESS LETHAL!"

I love torturing civilians:



(is that image displaying properly for people - because Firefox sees straight through the geocities direct linking trick and tries to display a text file, at least, for me it does)

I liked it, but I don't think its the second coming, saw AI got hanged up on each other, their aiming was pathetic, taking fire from the SMG suspect, took them 5 seconds to take him down.

Ace Pace wrote:I liked it, but I don't think its the second coming, saw AI got hanged up on each other, their aiming was pathetic, taking fire from the SMG suspect, took them 5 seconds to take him down.

That will sometimes happen depending on the officers AI state - They seem to have various "aggressiveness" levels dependant on who the officer is and whats happened thus far, as well as what action they are undertaking. On a "breach, flash and clear" they're a touch more likely to be gun happy because its a very aggressive action, when a suspect appears in a doorway though, they usually hold fire.

As for them being hung-up - did it last more than 2-3 seconds? Because thats the LONGEST I've seen and I've been trying to break it - sending teams through a confined doorway on different orders etc...

And also - remember - this is NOT a counter-terrorist game, you have to give them a chance to give up, otherwise you lose points... But I've done stuff like executed a bound suspect after one of his buds shot one of my guys... Points be damned!

I just hope the full game won't suffer from the Stupid Mission Syndrome like SWAT 3. Anyone remember the dreaded convention center, which seemed to be attacked every other day, and had to be constantly cleared over and over again? One would think that after terrorists took it over a second time, you'd have some serious firepower in place, and every employee would have to go through severe background checks before being allowed within five miles of the site...

Or the *shudders* storm drain system?

weemadando wrote:And also - remember - this is NOT a counter-terrorist game, you have to give them a chance to give up, otherwise you lose points...

IIRC, according to SWAT regulations, once he points a gun at you you're justified to use lethal force.

I HATED that in SWAT3 - the missions seemed to become more and more action oriented. 20+ suspects and all the rest... It was just stupid. I found the ones with 1-4 suspects SO much more dangerous and fun...

The most hilarious thing was that briefing before the final scrum-down.

"C Platoon made a full sweep of the site, but dogs don't sniff for tritium, so we'll have to do a visual search..."

What, are street cops blind or something? The SADM had a huge goddamned electronic lock on it! It was a giant valise beeping like crazy!

This pissed me off to no end. God I hope they correct those flaws in SWAT 4 - the demo certainly looks promising.

PeZook wrote:The most hilarious thing was that briefing before the final scrum-down.

"C Platoon made a full sweep of the site, but dogs don't sniff for tritium, so we'll have to do a visual search..."

What, are street cops blind or something? The SADM had a huge goddamned electronic lock on it! It was a giant valise beeping like crazy!

This pissed me off to no end. God I hope they correct those flaws in SWAT 4 - the demo certainly looks promising.

Which is why I made HUNDREDS of my own missions using the lovely simple editor...

mental note: try out demo tonight

The less-lethal shotgun is so cool - and it doesn't count as unauthorised force! SHOOT EVERYONE! Force civilians to comply! For that old-fashioned INF experience, take a 1911 and kill all the perps with headshots on hard. Once I finally worked out how to get the two teams in different places doing things (with the viewports) its much easier. The bad guys cheat their ASSES off on hard though.

If there's one change in AI that needs to be made is to make squad mates much more aggressive when they have non-lethal weapons. Anyone with a gun should get a beanbag surprise on sight, and should continue to be pelted until they comply, or until I get tired of their antics and draw my .45. It makes me angry seeing people with non-lethal weapons so reluctant to open fire that they get taken down.

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:If there's one change in AI that needs to be made is to make squad mates much more aggressive when they have non-lethal weapons. Anyone with a gun should get a beanbag surprise on sight, and should continue to be pelted until they comply, or until I get tired of their antics and draw my .45. It makes me angry seeing people with non-lethal weapons so reluctant to open fire that they get taken down.

Yeah - I think this is because the Less Lethal shotgun is seen as a "deployable" item by the AI which means they MUST be ordered to use it unless there are certain circumstances - I'd agree and say that this needs to be fixed... Though I can now get 3 beanbags on a guy in under a second (1 from me and 1 from each team - I'm getting used to the mouse menu).

100% agree on the non-lethals: I've seen people die because they don't pop a sudden, close-range, gun wielding suspect straight away. I want a 'thwack the recalitrant bastard' button, too.

I also want to say that hard is gay. The AI just cheats for headshots all the time: just like R6, it isn't any HARDER, the bad guys are just excellent marksmen. Lame.

I wish there were ROE defs in the briefing: I've seen a guy get surprised by my team, cower for a second, then cap two or three guys before they pop him. At close range, just kill the bastard.

Stark wrote:100% agree on the non-lethals: I've seen people die because they don't pop a sudden, close-range, gun wielding suspect straight away. I want a 'thwack the recalitrant bastard' button, too.

I have confirmed through experimentation that your men will shoot with beanbags and tasers, BOUND SUPSECTS AND CIVILIANS! Thats right, you get a mouthy guy as you put the zipcuffs on, tell one of your buds to taser him and watch him shut up... Or start threatening lawsuits...

The AI needs balancing - with the M4s they are often "trigger-happy", but with the less-lethal shotties, they're a bit slow to shoot.

With M4s they seem to respond to your attitude: I did a custom, 35-suspect mission mostly solo and when I called the rest of the team in, all the gunshots and dead suspects/civilians must have had an effect, since they a)didn't call for compliance at all and b) shot to kill. I've had it both ways: the first time I played, my guys wouldn't shoot an escaping suspect with an uzi, and the guy that chased after him got killed. Other times, as you say, they'll kill civilians with M4s if they run.

Still, even with those flaws, the game is absolutely a must-buy. And Irrational has been good about improving their games after release. Freedom Force just received a patch to make it compatible with Service Pack 2, after all, and that game came out in 2002.

weemadando wrote:I HATED that in SWAT3 - the missions seemed to become more and more action oriented. 20+ suspects and all the rest... It was just stupid. I found the ones with 1-4 suspects SO much more dangerous and fun...

Oh hell yes- the mission in that house with the crazy son and his father!

Vympel wrote:

weemadando wrote:I HATED that in SWAT3 - the missions seemed to become more and more action oriented. 20+ suspects and all the rest... It was just stupid. I found the ones with 1-4 suspects SO much more dangerous and fun...

Oh hell yes- the mission in that house with the crazy son and his father!

Thats probably my favourite mission - closely followed by the opening mission and the "Phoenix Club".

For fun in this demo - put 18 hostages and 25 suspects in the map - put them all on 0.0 - 0.50 moral, without weapons and on crap skill and take less lethals and get FUCKING GOOD at ordering your team mates about in a not-too dangerous environment.