StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Okay, so first off, who has it, and secondly, what system do you have it on?

Personally, I love the game. I've been a huge fan of the SC series since the first game, and frankly this sequel seems to be the best of the series. I'm only maybe halfway through the singleplayer game, but I'm having a blast. While in the previous games, linearity was the name of the game, here, backtracking and multiple angles of entry are much more common. There's still a degree of linearity, sure, but it's not as pronounced as it used to be.

Additionally, it's now much more possible to "ghost" any given level, in other words, to pass through without raising a single alarm, without killing or knocking out any guards or civilians, and so on.

The AI is considerably better than the previous two games as well. Sure, they still do some stupid things, but then I would ask you, what game doesn't have some dead-ends in the AI? The AI will inspect strange sounds, notice when lights have been shut off, destroyed, or temporarily shorted out (by one of the spiffy new toys Sam gets), and go to inspect the problem. They'll even notice if doors are open if they were closed before. That said, there are some quirks, but most of them are forgivable.

The Co-Op mode, at least on PC, has some serious bugs which need patching, but from what I've played so far, looks like it has the potential for massive amounts of fun, especially if and when new content is added.

Versus gets a very nice upgrade from the Pandora Tomorrow version, but is still essentially the same game, meaning plenty of spy vs. merc tension to go around. The release of the level editor means that we're likely to see lots of user-created content in the future, and while versus multiplayer is still limited to four people (two on each team), I honestly don't see it as a bad thing.

But yeah, I'm a massive Splinter Cell whore, who's with me?

More importantly, anyone want to set up games over Ubi.com for the PC version?

I'm definetely going to buy it, whenever I have the cash. I loved the first two, and the multiplayer in Pandora Tommorow was like crack, and I'm glad to hear its been preserved for Chaos Theory.

Multiplayer in PT was 'w00t a spy *nadenadenadenade* lolzor'. How is that like crack?

Only if you had spies who played like mercs*. I saw some awesome matches, with both sides doing some seriously sweet shit.

*Or if you possess the power to bitch at anything and everything. See: previous poster.

X-Box, Collectors Edition. Oh yeah.

I can't wait for summer. Then I can do co-op levels with my brother.

Note: Even with Thermoptic Camo, don't try to hide in a bright room when a merc is shining a torch at you. It's not going to end well.

Little tip, for all the spies and mercs out there. Find a buddy or group of friends to practice with on a regular basis. Learn the maps, and learn what gadgets work best for each.

White Haven wrote:*Or if you possess the power to bitch at anything and everything. See: previous poster.

Oi :p

I'm definitely getting it (PC version). Hopefully my friend will as well, but there's a lot on the slate this spring. I'd be interested in doing both types of MP.

My experience in Versus is somewhat limited, because my partner is never on (Marcao, you bastard!), but from what I've played so far, it looks pretty good. I'll give an overview of the gadgets.

Spies:
Gas Grenade-Not really changed from PT, creates a gas that slows down and will eventually knock out mercs who walk through it. Be warned that the new Merc Gas Mask will allow a merc free passage through the gas: Use with caution.
Chaff Grenade-useful for disrupting Merc vision modes and for disabling electronic devices in the area. I still think that the sticky shocker gun is more useful, as it doesn't leave a massive cloud of shiny bits hanging in the air, but definately useful for getting traps out of your line of sight.
Flash Grenade-Blinds mercs. Doesn't work if their vision modes are active. Not bad for an aggro spy, I guess, but I don't like them. Best used by first dropping chaff to disrupt vision modes.
Spy Bullets-Hit a merc to tag him as if he were hit with a spy trap. See him on your radar until the bullet runs out of power. Otherwise, shoot into walls and floors by entry points to objectives, to get early warning of incoming mercs. Use H to hack comms of any mercs in the area (most useful when you hit a merc with one). Damn useful.
Sticky Cams-See around corners for potential ambushes and traps. Use the gas to disable nearby mercs. Useful gadget, but only if you are trained it its finer points.
Noisemakers-Wonderful little toys that make sounds that show up on the merc's sound tracker. Not much good against noob mercs that don't know about it, but it can really fuck with trained mercs who follow the closest sounds to set up ambushes. Note: overuse might let the merc know that the noise is fake and not pay attention. This is still and advantage, as you can make as much noise as you want for the duration and he'll think it's just another trick.
Heartbeat Sensor-Haven't used this one much yet, apparently it works in a similar fashion to the HB sensor in the Rainbow 6 games. Will let you watch out for incoming mercs through walls (shows them on the radar like spy bullets do, only centered on you with limited arc and range).
Thermoptic Camo-Might seem like an overpowered and cheesy piece of kit, but it has some pretty severe limitations that keep it from being overpowered. First off, it only cloaks you on normal vision, night vision, and motion tracking vision. Lights you up in thermal and EMF visions (yeah, I know, THERMoptic? But it's a spy thing anyway, so it doesn't really matter). If you move too fast, it cuts out (standing and running, jumping, falling, rolling), if you go into the rain, it cuts out. If you are moving, the mercs can see the shimmer (predator style) and shoot at you. If you are in a bright room with a merc shining a headlamp at you, he can make you out by the disturbances in the light. Best used in dark areas, or pressed up against walls, or both, to give mercs the slip. Uses sticky shocker charge to power itself.
Sticky Shocker-Same as before, basically. Shoot to stun Mercs, disable security devices, and destroy destructable objects (such as wood covering a window or door.

Mercs:
Taser-Slightly modified from the PT version, it still delivers a nasty electric shock to spies, causing damage and unconciousness, but the range and arc have been toned down considerably. Tip: improve your aim with this weapon. Now, more than ever, it's a humiliation tool, as much as the neck grab by spies.
Frag Grenade-Same as ever. Launch, and things go boom. I think you get one fewer than standard from PT.
Wall Mine-Slightly modified to include a new mine type: poison mines! Have a longer range because they use a laser tripwire to fire a poison dart at spies. Can be set up rather far from the objective. Kills slowly, however, and spies have a chance to heal (either from a health kit or a teammate). Other mine modes include laser (laser tripwire which can be disrupted by chaff), and prox, which goes off from fast spy movement. Shooting mines with sticky shocker rounds causes them to explode.
Spy Trap-Another slight modification to include a new setting. Can now be set to act as a proximity detector like spy bullets are when fired into surfaces. Otherwise, normal mode still tags a spy as per PT.
Flares-Lights up an area for a short time. Not that useful, in my opinion. Probably can still be reloaded at ammo crates.
Gas Mask-Limited use device, as it only has so much oxygen in it, allows mercs to travel through gas without slowing down or getting knocked out. Downsides are that your vision is partially obscured and that you can't use any other gadgets while it's on.
Camnet-Allows you to access the merc camera network on a level. Cameras have all the same vision modes mercs do (motion, EMF, torch, and laser sight), and you have control options. Can be useful for scanning areas on larger maps, but you are helpless while you scan.
Backpack-Lets you carry extra gadgets, not just for yourself, but for your teammate as well. If you find a good partner, determine which of you carries this wondeful device, as it means more traps, 'nades, and other fun toys all around.
Submachine gun-New to CT, this weapon has a high rate of fire, low accuracy, and low to moderate damage. Great for close to medium range fights, and the high ammo capacity means that it's great for trying to peg that spy on the run.
Shotgun-BOOM. You either love it or you hate it, there's not much middle ground. Great for close-in maps, not so good when range is needed. Basically a one-hit kill weapon, in the right hands. Otherwise, a fancy noisemaker in the hands of a corpse.
Assault Rifle-Modified from PT, it now carries slightly less ammo and has a lower rate of fire. Good damage, good accuracy, only weapon that can be used in sniper mode, which is a must if a spy has your buddy in a choke hold.

Later, I'll talk about play styles and new multiplayer modes in Versus.

Played Co-Op with a friend of mine for a couple hours on the X-box version and had a complete blast. There's just something about shooting out a Chandelier and knifing someone in the face right as he turns to react to the sound of your partner knifing another guard in the back.

Speaking of the new knife, how does it work? Is it a "shoot/stab" type of thing like you'd find in an FPS, or a context-sensitive action like grabbing?

JediNeophyte wrote:Speaking of the new knife, how does it work? Is it a "shoot/stab" type of thing like you'd find in an FPS, or a context-sensitive action like grabbing?

Keep in mind I use X-Box.

Get up close to the person, and just press the right trigger. If you don't want to kill them, press the left trigger to knock them out. There's a few different animations for both movements, depending on how you're facing them, whether or not you were holding onto them, and if they're aware of you or not.

I have the PC version (the way it's meant to be) and will get around to the multiplayer stuff with the rather OTT gadgets when I've completed the game itself. Sadly, finals come first.

Speaking of which I really dig the addition of that knife. The lack of it in the previous two games caused me to suspect there was some rule that a Splinter Cell wasn't allowed to carry any piece of equipment that cost less than 50 grand.

On one hand, woo, knife. On the other hand, bleah, knife makes game easy.

White Haven wrote:On one hand, woo, knife. On the other hand, bleah, knife makes game easy.

Yeah, if you don't care about your mission score. Besides, the only real difference the knife makes in combat is that now you have a one-hit kill attack against bad guys even if they know you're there. The elbow strike from the previous games had pretty much the same takedown factor when guards were unaware, and had the added benefit of stunning them in a aware/semi-aware state, so you could get behind them, put them in a hold, and interrogate them/use them as a human shield.

Human shields really aren't that useful in the new game as they were in the first. They die fast.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Human shields really aren't that useful in the new game as they were in the first. They die fast.

Well, yeah, but everything dies fast, and those first few bullets tend to be all you need. Plus the other guy hesitates when he sees you've got a hostage.

Course as easy as the game is, if you're actually firing /bullets/ at people, chances are you've already done something wrong.

White Haven wrote:Course as easy as the game is, if you're actually firing /bullets/ at people, chances are you've already done something wrong.

What difficulty level are you playing on, and what's your average mission score?

Okay some more tips about the Versus game (SvM)

1. Visit maps before you "play" on them if at all possible. Don't just do the pre-programmed route, run around and explore. Try to find the different ways in and get used to the feel of each map. It's not perfect preparation, but it should be good enough so that you aren't boned when you jump online. Obviously, entry tactics will change on the fly, depending on opprotunity and enemy movements, but a basic working knowledge of the layout is critical for both teams. Once you know the map as a spy does, you will be a more effective merc. Once you understand how an effective merc patrols a map, you will be a better spy.

2. More than ever, spies need to be stealthy. In PT, a spy could just SS, smoke, and double jump kill or choke hold/kill a merc pretty easily. Now mercs have "invulnerability" when they get up from being knocked out. SS and choke holds won't work for a few seconds. Also, choke holds won't work for a few seconds after a merc comes out of a SS "shock" Additionally, the new rage manuever makes it very difficult to choke hold a merc that is aware of you.

3. Mercs need to constantly cycle through vision modes in order to stay aware, spies need to use vision modes sparingly. A merc constantly changing vision modes makes life difficult for spies, as they can't rely on the inherant weaknesses of each mode as easily. Spies rarely using their vision modes won't be as likely to show up like TRON on EMF.

4. More than ever, teamwork is rewarded. Spies have new special teamwork moves that allow easier access to some locations. Both sides can heal their partners now. Mercs can carry extra gadgets in their backpacks, which can allow for up to twice as many gadgets for both players. Spies can share vision through their sticky cams, etc.

5. Communicate with your partner and coordinate your moves. If one spy runs interferance, he can sometimes attract the attention of both mercs, allowing the other spy a window in which he can go for an objective. Alternatively, mercs coordinating their patrols can better watch out for incoming spies.

Basic stuff, yeah, I know, but there you have it. Vets of Versus should know some of this already, but hey, I love you all so much, I figured I'd let you in on it.

I never played multiplayer much, mostly because my friend never got Pandora Tomorrow. It's just not the same with some random internet monkey as a teammate.

Hotfoot wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Human shields really aren't that useful in the new game as they were in the first. They die fast.

Well, yeah, but everything dies fast, and those first few bullets tend to be all you need. Plus the other guy hesitates when he sees you've got a hostage.

Doesn't hesitate much to me. Then again, I rarely get into those sorts of situations anyways.

I'm going to have to try playing on Expert soon. Right now I'm going through the levels again on Normal trying to get better percentage scores.

Shooting bullets and using the knife is to show off for friends. Most of the time I don't even use sticky shockers and airfoils in missions. Maybe a sticky camera or two, my KOs are almost exclusively melee.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Doesn't hesitate much to me. Then again, I rarely get into those sorts of situations anyways.

I'm going to have to try playing on Expert soon. Right now I'm going through the levels again on Normal trying to get better percentage scores.

Shooting bullets and using the knife is to show off for friends. Most of the time I don't even use sticky shockers and airfoils in missions. Maybe a sticky camera or two, my KOs are almost exclusively melee.

Maybe it's like in MGS3, there are guys who will hesitate when they see a buddy held and won't do jack, but others will be hotshot cowboys and try and take the shot, right or wrong, it fucks you up.

I recall the first game (never got the second, will get it now it's only a tenner) had only really two scenes where you had to use the gun. The bit in the abattoir where you set those sentry guns up to protect yourself much like that bit in Nova Prospekt in HL2, and the final scene in the library in the last mission (which fucking took me forever to perfect).

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Doesn't hesitate much to me. Then again, I rarely get into those sorts of situations anyways.

I'm going to have to try playing on Expert soon. Right now I'm going through the levels again on Normal trying to get better percentage scores.

Shooting bullets and using the knife is to show off for friends. Most of the time I don't even use sticky shockers and airfoils in missions. Maybe a sticky camera or two, my KOs are almost exclusively melee.

Maybe it's like in MGS3, there are guys who will hesitate when they see a buddy held and won't do jack, but others will be hotshot cowboys and try and take the shot, right or wrong, it fucks you up.

Yeah, it also depends on the alarm level and if the guards have been raised to a higher state of awareness or not. They usually spit out lines like, "Put the gun down, we can talk" and such, then they just open fire after a few seconds.

I recall the first game (never got the second, will get it now it's only a tenner) had only really two scenes where you had to use the gun. The bit in the abattoir where you set those sentry guns up to protect yourself much like that bit in Nova Prospekt in HL2, and the final scene in the library in the last mission (which fucking took me forever to perfect).

In the first one, the only really scripted battle sequences are towards the end, in the library and the basement (oh god, the basement), plus the times where you HAVE to snipe an objective. In the second one, there are some more scripted battle sequences, but nothing as insane as the ones in the first game. In Chaos Theory, the lethal weapons seem pretty much optional for the most part, especially since they added the knife. I don't think that's a bad thing, and in fact, it add a certain degree of freedom to the game. Now it's entirely possible to go through the game "Rambo", killing everything you see, or to just "ghost" it. Being able to accept that wide a range of playing styles is rather nice of the developers to include.

That said, I really wish they'd fix Co-op on the PC. It's really insanely buggy, laggy, and crash-prone. There will be a patch soon, I hear, which is good, and until then, Vs is pretty stable and as always, damn fun to play.

I look forward to playing Co-Op in Elite mode...you don't get ammo for your guns to start, just what you can pick up during a mission.