Prosthetics and insanity

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-04-27 02:38am

Roleplaying games that feature cybernetics usually have some sort of rule where you have a certain percent chance of freaking out when you get prosthetics or implants. Is this a brain bug or is it grounded in a real phenomenon among prosthesis patients?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-04-27 02:45am

I don't have any data on prosthetic patients, but I'd be willing to bet dollars to donuts that it's a brain-bug grounded in witless "zomg what makes a man a man" pseudophilosophical bullshit.

I think Sam and Fuzzy addressed this notion quite well.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2005-04-27 02:53am

I would think that it would qualify as a brain bug. The real reason for having some sort of 'cyberpsychosis' is to add an element of risk to playing a heavily modified cyborg in return for the major boost in abilities. In the excellent "Cyberpunk" system originally published by R. Talsorian Games cyperpsychosis was the result of the 'alieness' of the sensory input the organic brain recieved from the artificial implants. This in turn causes a continual level of mental stress and anxiety to build up in the character which in turn could lead to a psychotic break, and usually a quick trip to the ER for the rest of the party and any nearby civvies.

As for happening in reality , I've never heard of anything even remotely similar happening to any recipient of any artifical organ or limb.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-04-27 02:53am

Brain bug. Quite how prostheses cause insanity I don't know. Unless some experimental implant tinkers with the brain, it should be no more dangerous than normal limbs.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-27 02:54am

Hmm, I don't recall anything like that in Star Wars D6.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-04-27 03:26am

Star Wars D6 had penalties for Force users that were cybernetic (I think Dark Siders got a pass).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-04-27 03:32am

Shadowrun had rules like that: it's excuse is that it was written by a tree-hugging shamanistic moron in the '80s.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-04-27 03:43am

It's punishment from God.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-04-27 04:01am

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Roleplaying games that feature cybernetics usually have some sort of rule where you have a certain percent chance of freaking out when you get prosthetics or implants. Is this a brain bug or is it grounded in a real phenomenon among prosthesis patients?

I don't know which RPGs feature that. T20 basically says cybernetics are fine, you just gotta have the money for it. Ditto to SWD20, though it fucks you up if you're trying to use the Force.

The only thing I know about in D20 is you need to make a Fort save in order for your body to not reject the implants. The save is usually nothing anyway (DC 5 or something ridiculously low - or it could depend on the type of implant).

How it causes insanity? No idea. Probably an unintentional brainbug. Now if we were talking brain augmentation with a sloppy surgeon...

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-27 05:06am

40k and ghost in the shell say it's no problem....

erm remind me not to allow Sister Major K. to show up anytime soon, oh wait I already did that....

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-27 05:13am

Since when is GitS an RPG?

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2005-04-27 05:22am

In WEG SW characters with cybernetics get extra dark side points for doing evil. The number of extra points gained is affected by how much cybernetics your character has. It had something to do with cyber being not living and is t3h eevil. Or some such.

-Gunhead

desertjedi · Post by **desertjedi** » 2005-04-27 11:22am

I thoguht Shadowrun only had the Essence limit of 6 points that could be "spent" to use cybernetics. I don't remember a rule where you might go insane if you have a cybered eye. Although that Essence penalty will limit a magic user.

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2005-04-27 12:28pm

Well, I think something like cyber-psychosis is possible once prosthetics become that advanced, just not very likely. At least not as likely as some RPGs propose. It would really depend on the type of cybernetics and the individual's temperment, really. Like Caroline Evers or Johnny (I think that was the ADP's full-'borg's name) from AD Police.

Caroline had replaced her reproductive system with synthetic parts, but she still experienced phantom menstrual cramps. This isn't what really pushed her over the edge; it was more how she repeatedly went to the Cybernetics Bank to get the faulty parts 'replaced', and was told that she basically wasn't worth the effort...and then coming home to find her husband sleeping with a prostitute, because she 'wasn't like being with a real woman anymore'.

Johnny was a full-'borg, but that didn't automatically make him nutso. It was more how he was treated like a machine; he was referred to as equipment, he was kept isolated from all human contact, his creator tried to use him as a deranged sex toy...

I guess what I'm saying is, it's probably a brainbug that any arbitrary combination of cybernetics will make anyone go insane...but certain cybernetics, and certain individuals, certainly could cause 'incidents'.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-04-27 01:30pm

It's a brainbug, really. In Cyberpunk 2020, it serves a dual purpose, one is purely mechanics: they don't want players to get so cybered up that they're unstoppable death machines. The other is simply flavor.

In the next version of Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk 203X, Cyberpsychosis seems to be more or less a non-factor for various reasons.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-04-27 02:15pm

Ryoga wrote: Johnny was a full-'borg, but that didn't automatically make him nutso. It was more how he was treated like a machine; he was referred to as equipment, he was kept isolated from all human contact, his creator tried to use him as a deranged sex toy....

Also, didn't johnny suffer from near sensory deprivation when he wasn't active?

Ryoga · Post by **Ryoga** » 2005-04-27 02:35pm

Oh, I remember his name now. It was Billy. Billy Fanward.

Anyway, yeah, the only parts of Billy's body left were his brain, part of his notochord, and his tongue. Even when he was activated, his senses were below-aveage...he could only see or hear what his sensors could convey, which was slightly 'off' compared to normal, and he could only feel through his tongue...which he habitually bit. I imagine it got worse when he was shut down.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-04-27 04:30pm

I figured it was a brainbug and so I didn't include it when I came up with the rules for my cyberpunk setting, but I thought it would be wise to double-check. As far as play-balance goes, I think it's better to put cybernetics in their proper context than make them unstoppably powerful and then artificially try to balance them out.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-04-27 05:27pm

Eh, it would depend on the quality of the cybernetics, in my opinion. Not causing insanity, but, say, if your cybernetic arm's sensations were constantly crude, imperfect, and wholly different to those from your biological arm, I could easily imagine that wearing on someone over time. Not going to make them wig out without warning like some systems have, but I know that I'd be on a short fuse. All depends on the tech level of the settings neuronics, the quality of the implants, and what sensory input, if any, the implant is producing.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2005-04-27 07:04pm

Alternity only turned you into a raving looney with cybernetics when you bought reflex enhancements and then the chip that ramped your nervous system up to obscene levels. Even then, you could still resist it, however difficult it was. As for reality, I doubt highly that cybernetics will induce insanity.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2005-04-27 10:42pm

I always considered it a side-effect from botched surgery, organ rejection, complications, etc.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-04-27 10:47pm

Except that IIRC, synthetics aren't rejectable by the human immune system.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2005-04-28 12:19am

play balance is the most common reason .Want to play a full conversion borg????? Fine but deal with the aftereffects as well.

Palladiunms system didn`t have the cyberpsycosis angle....but CP2020 did........

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-04-28 12:22am

actually the shadowrun/starwars angle is like that of Arcanum, thou canst serve both science and magic.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2005-04-28 12:47am

Typhonis 1 wrote:play balance is the most common reason .Want to play a full conversion borg????? Fine but deal with the aftereffects as well.

Yes, but like I said earlier, it's better to have cybernetics give sane bonuses in the first place than overpower them and then artificially impose drawbacks. Logically, you can serve most of a cyborg's functions better and more cheaply with a robot or vehicle.

You just have to put things in their proper scale. Cyborgs would make excellent spies, bodyguards, hitmen, and gangsters. But they should never become one-man armies, and that is how they often end up because RPG designers don't know how to balance their games.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Prosthetics and insanity

Prosthetics and insanity

Re: Prosthetics and insanity