StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2005-05-13 01:37am**

Did anyone watch the MTV event where Microsoft unveiled the XBox 360?

It reminded me of why I never watch MTV. It was horrid.

Perfect Dark Zero; all I can say is...is that an XBox game?

Tiger Woods Golf: Is that an N64 game? Seriously- the ground is flat with a green texture. The only thing smooth is the ball.

Need for Speed whatever-it-was; better than Burnout 3 but not by leaps and bounds.

Whatever that horror game was: Unreal 3 engine type graphics. Wow. Except I rewinded it with the PVR, and I was right. It was LAGGING. VISIBLY.

They never showed more than two seconds of straight footage, which got EXTREMELY annoying as you couldn't get a good view of any games.

They didn't give any real information other than "OMG XBox is teh uber XBox is teh next big thing!!!111 Xbox 360 revolutionizes teh w0rld!"

Seriously. It is not worth watching if they re-air it. All they had was a bunch of idiots trying to cuss in every sentence, a bunch of gamer stereotypes that use "dog" or "man" after every word, all getting excited over the XBox 360 because...oooh...look at the lights!

I am NOT bashing the XBox here. I am bashing MTV and Microsoft's presentation. It was all about trying to sound hip and cool. Over half the presentation was a band singing while circles spun around their heads, and another chunk was a "Pimp my XBox" show. It was so annoying with these imbeciles trying to sound cool were running around making idiots of themselves that it killed any enthusiasm I may have had.

Microsoft has announced all the specs and stuff, if you can navigate the site with that painful to use slowly rotating flash thingy.

Da specs:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm

Xbox 360 System Performance Specifications
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU

* Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
* Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
* VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
* 128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
* 1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance

* 9 billion dot product operations per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor

* 10 MB of embedded DRAM
* 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
* Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance

* 500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate

* 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA

Shader Performance

* 48 billion shader operations per second

Memory

* 512 MB of 700 MHz GDDR3 RAM
* Unified memory architecture

Memory Bandwidth

* 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
* 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
* 21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Overall System Floating-Point Performance

* 1 teraflop

Storage

* Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive
* 12x dual-layer DVD-ROM
* Memory Unit support starting at 64 MB

I/O

* Support for up to four wireless game controllers
* Three USB 2.0 ports
* Two memory unit slots

Optimized for Online

* Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features with broadband service, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, gamer profile for digital identity, and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies, or listening to music
* Built-in Ethernet port
* Wi-Fi ready: 802.11a, 802.11b, and 802.11g
* Video camera ready

Digital Media Support

* Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD • Ability to stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras and Windows XP-based PCs
* Ability to rip music to the Xbox 360 hard drive
* Custom playlists in every game
* Built-in Media Center Extender for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
* Interactive, full-screen 3-D visualizers

High-Definition Game Support

* All games supported at 16:9, 720p, and 1080i, anti-aliasing
* Standard-definition and high-definition video output supported

Audio

* Multi-channel surround sound output
* Supports 48KHz 16-bit audio
* 320 independent decompression channels
* 32-bit audio processing
* Over 256 audio channels

System Orientation

* Stands vertically or horizontally

Customizable Face Plates

* Interchangeable to personalize the console

1 teraflop? What the heck? Is that even possible at this point?

Media capabilities:
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/entertainment.htm

Xbox 360™ is an integrated music, picture, games, and movie center.

Use the camera to video chat or send video messages to friends across the globe via Xbox Live™.

Stream recorded television, videos, movies, music, and photos from your Windows® XP Media Center PC straight to your Xbox 360. Enjoy all your digital entertainment on demand throughout your home with one integrated system.

Play progressive-scan DVD movies right out of the box.

Connect your portable music device to enjoy your favorite music while playing a game or chatting with friends online.

Listen to FM and Internet radio.

Receive game invites from friends while playing games, watching movies, or listening to music.

Enjoy and share your digital photos with friends and family.

Keep in touch with instant messaging via Windows Messenger and Xbox Live.

Get one-button access to the Xbox Guide, an entertainment gateway that instantly connects players to the Xbox 360 experience: your games, your friends, your music.

Some things seem unnecessary. 802.11a? FM Radio?

MSN Messenger and video chat are cool.

I'll say the media capabilities are nice.

But for me, unnecessarily. I'm buying a console here. I don't have a Windows Media Center PC, goodbye streaming video. I have a DVD player. I can already play music. I already have MSN Messenger. So these won't affect my purchase decision.

What do you guys think about this?

Posted: **2005-05-13 01:49am**

I'm (vainly, doubtless) hoping that all consoles will launch with cordless controllers. Good ones. Rechargeable.

Posted: **2005-05-13 01:58am**

Fuck the X-Brick and fuck the donkey it rode into town on. And fuck sony too. I'm going Ninty next round because the revolution looks to be the only console that's actually innovating. The Boat Anchor Mk 2 (X-Box 2) looks to have the weakest specs of this round, the PS3 is unknown but recieves negative marks due to my increasing anger at my PS2 (source unknown. So what if it's not a rational argument, I'm the one buying the console and I shouldn't have to be rational about everything to myself). Ninty just feels right this time round. I think it's my classic lust. My first console was a sega genisis (already outdated at that point but still at a time when you could get a few new and a lot of used games for it) and while I can't get another sega because of their folding over I can get pretty close with ninty. Oooh boy a rage driven rant at 2 am. I'm suuuuure I've been coherent.

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:20am**

I'm a big fan of the X-box (now) over the PS2... Just too many good things to go with it - but no Sing Star Party - YET.

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:23am**

Hmm after reading the specs and seeing the info I have to say that M$ has already sold me this console, if for using it for its secondary features alone, nevermind the game that will come out
I mean look at all those pretty Media capabilities, were it say, a Panasonic DVD player instead of the Xbox, most people would be saying how much they need one

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:29am**

I think somone over at Microsoft is running XBMC and liking it.

XBMC is the reason to get an X-Box, The only thing missing is a record function so you can save TV shows and stuff on the X-Box harddrive

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:41am**

Mr Bean wrote:Hmm after reading the specs and seeing the info I have to say that M$ has already sold me this console, if for using it for its secondary features alone, nevermind the game that will come out
I mean look at all those pretty Media capabilities, were it say, a Panasonic DVD player instead of the Xbox, most people would be saying how much they need one

So you're buying it for the secondary capabilities? A gaming console? Isn't that...a bit off?

Do you have a Windows Media Center PC?

Posted: **2005-05-13 03:12am**

I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?

Posted: **2005-05-13 03:26am**

desertjedi wrote:I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?

I want to know the answers for these too!

Posted: **2005-05-13 03:56am**

A few nice surprises... there were a lot of people pooh-poohing the triple 3.2 ghz procs, and the 512 megs (instead of 256) is a nice thing to see.

Still not sold, though. I wanna see the entire product marketplace before I buy something.

Posted: **2005-05-13 04:32am**

SPOOFE wrote:A few nice surprises... there were a lot of people pooh-poohing the triple 3.2 ghz procs, and the 512 megs (instead of 256) is a nice thing to see.

The extra ram is definitely very nice. A nice increase form the 64mb of ram the Xbox had.

Still not sold, though. I wanna see the entire product marketplace before I buy something.

It should have some version of Halo for it at some point

Also the hardware will have proper support for a keyboard & mouse! Now it is upto the games to support that.

Posted: **2005-05-13 04:46am**

Some more games in the Xbox will be Quake 4, Call of Duty 2 and Elder Scrolls 4.

EDIT: while this isn't the best source, it has an intresting quote.

Holmdahl then showed us some rather cool visual aids to help us understand a little better exactly how much hard work has gone into the engineering and design of the machine. We checked out the final mainboard of the 360, complete with a water-cooled CPU, GPU, and memory modules installed. It's pretty hard to comprehend the level of technology funneled into the 360 in light of its exceptionally cool form-factor; the internal guts of the machine are likely to set a new standard in efficiency of operation for modern-day video-game systems.

How much is that thing going to cost?

Posted: **2005-05-13 06:51am**

from the I've seen so far, $299US

I don't doubt they'll up the pricepoint a bit more though wen it goes on sale in the US.

Posted: **2005-05-13 07:59am**

Praxis wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Hmm after reading the specs and seeing the info I have to say that M$ has already sold me this console, if for using it for its secondary features alone, nevermind the game that will come out
I mean look at all those pretty Media capabilities, were it say, a Panasonic DVD player instead of the Xbox, most people would be saying how much they need one
So you're buying it for the secondary capabilities? A gaming console? Isn't that...a bit off?

As I said, If this were a DVD player with all of its wizbang features, if they work as advertised, would probably be the most feature laden thing on the market right now

Meaning I'd sure as heck get one, the fact that it happens to be a game console ontop of that is pretty nice

Posted: **2005-05-13 10:40am**

DarkSilver wrote:from the I've seen so far, $299US

I don't doubt they'll up the pricepoint a bit more though wen it goes on sale in the US.

Although from what I've seen at $299 it won't include the hard drive.

Posted: **2005-05-13 10:40am**

Ace Pace wrote:Some more games in the Xbox will be Quake 4, Call of Duty 2 and Elder Scrolls 4.

EDIT: while this isn't the best source, it has an intresting quote.

Holmdahl then showed us some rather cool visual aids to help us understand a little better exactly how much hard work has gone into the engineering and design of the machine. We checked out the final mainboard of the 360, complete with a water-cooled CPU, GPU, and memory modules installed. It's pretty hard to comprehend the level of technology funneled into the 360 in light of its exceptionally cool form-factor; the internal guts of the machine are likely to set a new standard in efficiency of operation for modern-day video-game systems.
How much is that thing going to cost?

I'd bet the current version is water cooled, but I doubt the final one will be.

Posted: **2005-05-13 10:41am**

desertjedi wrote:I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?

For #1, doesn't look like it yet unless they include an x86 core.

Posted: **2005-05-13 10:41am**

I'll be getting the next gen Xbox and Revolution. Since I have an Xbox now and a Gamecube.. I like both systems.

Anyway.

Here's a better video for the 360. I didn't see it posted on here, and hopefully Spanky the Dolphin won't come on here and be a dick about it. *crosses fingers*

http://msxb.wmod.llnwd.net/a274/o2/ourc ... 1_750k.wmv

Posted: **2005-05-13 11:17am**

said it before and i'll say it again. a company can have all the fancy specs in the world for their next system, but without good games and solid 3rd party support they're going to suck ass. If M$ doesn't have a wide variety of games that -aren't- available on every other platform out there, i've got no reason to buy their console.

Posted: **2005-05-13 11:31am**

Considering Square Enix has just thrown their support behind Nintendo, Nintendo might have some nice games this time around

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:04pm**

desertjedi wrote:I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?

That's the Million-Dollar Question, for geeks, anyway. Some have speculated that the third core is reserved for emulation-translation (translating x86 into PPC) tasks with the other two being for execution. It's also possible that the third core is a controller for the other two, though.

Posted: **2005-05-13 02:19pm**

It could alternatively be the perfered processor for the always on dashboard & integrated MSN features and sound.

Under an NT Kernel, you can set which processor an application will prefer. By doing this you can exploit the fact that most applications arent going to be using all of the cores 100% of the time anyway.

Going by the specs all 3 cores are identical.

Posted: **2005-05-13 04:23pm**

Praxis wrote:
desertjedi wrote:I do have a couple of questions that I haven't seen answered anywhere:

1. Backwards compatibility with Xbox games?
2. Will it be able to stream high definition video from your PC or media player?
3. How long before I can start modding it to accept Xvid and other non-MS codecs for my tv?
For #1, doesn't look like it yet unless they include an x86 core.

I'm guessing the mainboard would be packed enough as it is. Adding a dedicated x86 core would involve adding all the supporting chipset hardware required to get the Celeron/P3 core that came in XBox to play nicely with the memory and graphics subsystem. So no, there isn't going to be any hardware support for old XBox games.

This leaves software emulation. Which is to say we use software to translate the x86 instructions coming out of the XBox 1 game into the equivalent series of PPC instructions. However, software emulation is fundamentally slow and inefficient. Though the original XBox, I think had a Celeron running at around 700-733 MHz. The XBox 360 will have three PPCs running at 3200 MHz. Naively, one might say one of the XBox 360 cores is over four times faster than the original XBox CPU. (Practically speaking, they're probably closer to, say, 6x-8x faster, due to the the more modern processors being capable of getting more done per clock cycle than the old Celeron chip.)

Though that's not to say it's not doable. After all, a PPC processor is found in modern Macs, and Microsoft already puts out a PC emulator for the Mac called Virtual PC. And casually inspecting other x86-to-RISC emulations which have been done (such as PocketDOS for PocketPC, for instance) suggests that the chips at the heart of XBox 360 should be just fast enough to provide a decent XBox software emulator.

Posted: **2005-05-13 04:32pm**

HardOCP wrote:Xbox 360 Cooling Update:
We had a couple people, after reading our Xbox 360 article, comment on Microsoft’s statements that the Xbox 360 was “water cooled.” While this might be technically true, it carries a very heavy marketing spin in order to glom onto an enthusiast technology. To be succinct, the Xbox 360 is not water cooled in the way we, meaning just about every computer hardware enthusiast on the planet, tend to think of water cooling. The Xbox 360 motherboard we were shown did have a CPU heatsink in place that utilized a heatpipe. Yes, a heatpipe does have liquid in it and some H2O as well, but is usually primarily ammonia. In a heatpipe, the liquid at the “hot” end vaporizes, and is moved to the “cold” end of the heatpipe by a pressure differential and convection. Once the heat is transferred to the fins in the cold end, the substance condenses and the process repeats. The CPU cooler we saw on the Xbox 360 processor looked very much like this CPU cooler seen at Plycon except the Xbox 360 cooler was taller than wider and only utilized one copper heatpipe tube.

Below is a low quality picture of the Xbox 360 internals. The tall heatsink on the right is the heatpipe unit that covers the CPU, and the wide heatsink on the left, that reminds me of a heatsink on an old Voodoo 3 3000, covers the ATI-built GPU. Obviously, the Xbox 360 is not water cooled in the conventional manner that most enthusiast relate to when they hear the term “water cooled”. As far as we know, there hasn’t been a water cooled Xbox since our original water cooled Xbox project back in early February 2002.

<Pic snipped, as the HardOCP servers seem to be slammed right now>

So no, it's not watercooled, that's just MicroWank describing garden-variety heat-pipes.

Posted: **2005-05-13 04:55pm**

How can it have specs that are this good, yet produce screenshots that are this bad?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

XBox 360 revealed on MTV; painful. Specs revealed.

XBox 360 revealed on MTV; painful. Specs revealed.