StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2005-09-06 08:40am**

I am in a lot of trouble and I really need help to sort it out.

[Before I continue I am not tech-savy so please bare with me].

Last sunday my dad asked me to go with him to buy some computers for his office. We now have a setup of two computers and two laptops in his office. A few months ago he spent a lot of money on having network provisions put into the office - there are five desks and each one now has a network box and cable next to it. Accompaning these five network boxes and cables besides each desk is an area at the back of the office where the printer is which has an other five boxes each numbered to correspond to each desks network box, which are also numbered. All of the boxes in the office whether at the side of the desks or at the back of the office have standard network cables coming out of them.

Bare with me.

Now, last sunday my dad asked me whether I could install his network for him. Easy I though - all the computers I bought have network cards and all the computers have win XP home. I assumed it would be easy to set up the network. How wrong I was!

Now, there was already one computer in the office with a broadband internet connection and a connection to the office printer. All I wanted to do was expand this so the other computers could share the broadband and use the office printer as well.

I ensured all the computers were turned on and plugged into their respective network wall connections. I then proceeded to run the network setup client on the machine with the net connection. After that was completed I followed the instruction to do a similar process on the other machines.

Problem.

When trying to setup the network on these new machines, each machine gave me the same problem - they did not recognise any network connection. I chose the ignore disconnected connection option when trying to setup the connection, but once everything was done all I would get is the dreaded red 'X' through the network connection taskbar icon.

---

I cannot stress how important it is that I get this up and running by friday, and preferably today. My dad has left me in charge of getting it sorted because he is out of the country, and for whatever reason he insists that it MUST be working this friday. Now I don't want to let my dad down, yet I thought it would be a simple process of just plugging in the required cables and doing some easy software tasks, but no such luck.

Now, I think the problem may have something to do with the cables at the back of the office. I have absolutely no idea what these things are for. Here are a few notes that may help any soul kind enough to help me:

- The current host network computer is plugged into wall network box 1. At the back of the office the printer is plugged into the row of network boxes at number 1.
- I plugged the other computers into their desk boxes 2,3 and 4.
- I also plugged one of the laptops into the back wall box 2 instead of desk box 2. This had no effect on setting up the network. Also it should be noted that it is quite a large office and it would be impossible for machines 3 + 4 to stretch to these connections at the back of the office.

I realise that my problem may seem easy to many. I assure you all that I have tried everything I can think of. I really need help from you guys as none of my offline friends have a clue about pc's so I am stuck. I can post further info if needed - hell I can fax diagrams of the office to people if need be. Please help me![/list]

Posted: **2005-09-06 09:00am**

ALI_G wrote:ccompaning these five network boxes and cables besides each desk is an area at the back of the office where the printer is which has an other five boxes each numbered to correspond to each desks network box, which are also numbered. All of the boxes in the office whether at the side of the desks or at the back of the office have standard network cables coming out of them.

This is going to sound stupid, so forgive me, but your post doesn't make it quite clear.

Do all the computers physically connect? You say there's numbered boxes at the back, but are they linked to each other in any way? Is there a hub or similar they all go in to?

ALI_G wrote:I assumed it would be easy to set up the network. How wrong I was!

Assuming XP Home doesn't do anything fundamentally different from XP Pro, it should be. Before I changed my setup I ran a similar network, with a single machine sharing its connection and printer.

All you do is:

1) Plug everything together.
2) Run the Wizard on the machine thats got the net connection and stuff, making sure you tell it to share them.
3) Run the wizard on the other machines, telling them to connect to the net through the other machine, and making sure they're on the same workgroup.

From what you've said, you did everything that should be done, so I'm more inclined to think there's something not plugged in somewhere.

Posted: **2005-09-06 09:11am**

I'll start by saying that while I'm a good fix-it person when I can get my hands on the system(s), I'm not a good help desk person. I even find it difficult to stand back and give instructions to someone who's right in front of me -- I need to get my hands dirty to get the job done for all but the most simple tasks.

That said, some obvious questions present themselves:

- it looks like you're doing some sort of ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) through the already connected computer. Is this the case? If so, it really isn't the most optimal situation -- it's better to get a router (which can be had rather cheaply these days) and work from there. If you're stuck using ICS, though, this or this might be helpful.
- a basic schematic would be helpful. Talk of network boxes here and connections there just don't tell the tale, especially since (forgive me) your descriptions are not very precise. You could even put the make and model number next to each device, so that even if you don't know what a device is, it will be possible for us to identify it and its function. Google is a wonderful thing.
- what sort of broadband internet service do you have?
- is the printer a network printer? if not, is it your intention to use the already-connected computer to be a print server as well?

There are far better, and more helpful, people here than me. I'm sure that providing these details will be useful to one of them (or possibly even me) in the search for your solutions.

Posted: **2005-09-06 09:22am**

Ok sorry about the crappy descriptions - I really am dumb when it comes to computers especially networking.

I am going to the office later on. When I am there I will draw a layout of the office and the network and use the office scanner to upload it. Hopefully then things should be clearer.

As for the hub - there is a machine at the back of the office that might be a hub - it certainly has something to do with the network anyway. When I go there I will try and get a make and model and see on google whether it is a hub or not.

Forgive my stupidity but what does a hub do?

Posted: **2005-09-06 10:15am**

XP Home cannot attatch to a domain controller, and the options for home network is severly limited.

First gime some info.

Start a command prompt.

Press start
Click Run
Type cmd.exe
Press enter.

In the box type "ipconfig"

You vill get something like this:

Code: Select all

Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.10
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1

Please give me the numbers you get.

Posted: **2005-09-06 11:46am**

ALI_G wrote: Forgive my stupidity but what does a hub do?

Simply put, a hub is where all the cables meet.

Posted: **2005-09-06 12:18pm**

OK I am at the office now, thankfully I have bought a switch and I am now typing on one of the laptops via the network...those cables at the back of the office were where the hub was supposed to go...

BUT...

Still having major problems.

- One of the problems is hardware - I think I broke one of the wall mountings and will need a screwdriver to fix matters.

- A biggie. The printer is now inaccessable by all the computers. Previously the printer connected to the main [host] computer via the ethernet connection. That connection now, however, goes into the router. It seems as if I need a physical link between the host computer, the printer and the network via the switch. But I don't know how to do this. Any ideas|

- The first computer that I managed to link to the network now, inmexplicably, won't recognise that the cable is NOT unplugged anymore. God knows what has happened here but I really hope I haven't broken yet an other network point.

I am sat here on my own in this roasting office. Arghhh, somebody teleport in and help me, please!

Posted: **2005-09-06 12:29pm**

ALI_G wrote: - A biggie. The printer is now inaccessable by all the computers. Previously the printer connected to the main [host] computer via the ethernet connection. That connection now, however, goes into the router. It seems as if I need a physical link between the host computer, the printer and the network via the switch. But I don't know how to do this. Any ideas|

Simplest way might be just to leave the printer connected to the PC with the net connection and set it to be shared.

Properties > Sharing

ALI_G wrote:- The first computer that I managed to link to the network now, inmexplicably, won't recognise that the cable is NOT unplugged anymore. God knows what has happened here but I really hope I haven't broken yet an other network point.

Can it connect the network despite this? If so, then I'd say just leave it rather than risk anything bad happening.

Posted: **2005-09-06 02:38pm**

Now you learn the value of properly planning beforehand

If you can draw a diagram, give us data on what equipment you have, etc. it would be most useful.

Posted: **2005-09-06 03:01pm**

Ok here is my diagram. Laugh.

D1 is the host computer [Desk 1]. D2 is where my dad would sit but sadly I have broken the connection and need my screwdriver kit. D3 is vacent. D4 + D5 have been connected to the internet via the network but cannot use the printer or view files on the host PC yet.

Those lines going into the switch are the cables that come out of the wall that correspond with each desk connection e.g. there are five desks with potential network holes in the wall and five corresponding ports for them to access the switch next to the wall. [That didn't make sense did it?]

http://www.sgnonline.com/vb3/attachment ... entid=1114

Presently I have the printer connected to the vacent slot three on the switch. This allows D1 to access it [it always has been able to] but my other computers cannot access it even though I have enabled printer sharing. Any ideas?

Also I am having trouble accessing the host PC on other machines on the network. Again I have shared the files I want [even full disk drives] but I still cannot connect to that computer from others. Any ideas?

If explanation is needed over the diagram, please just ask.

[And as if to remind me of how important this is my dad just phoned me from Bulgaria for a status report on this very subject, reaffirming that it must be done by friday or else, death].

Posted: **2005-09-06 04:56pm**

Are you using a Router, or some kind of infernal modem device?

For any configuration above two PCs, you really should be using a router. In this instance, I think, you'd want to plug the router directly into the switch, not any of the PCs, and you may then have to set up the default gateway on each PC manually.

If you run ICS with five PCs, it will snarl up the host something rotten, as well as the normal problamn that the internet won't work when that PC's off.

Posted: **2005-09-06 05:02pm**

FFS, what's the difference between a router and a switch? I hope I haven't spent money that's not even mine on the wrong thing.

I am in a world of shit here, I think next time I will leave things to the professionals...

[how hard can it be to get a printer, internet connection and file sharing between four computers?!]

Posted: **2005-09-06 07:24pm**

ALI_G wrote:FFS, what's the difference between a router and a switch? I hope I haven't spent money that's not even mine on the wrong thing.

I am in a world of shit here, I think next time I will leave things to the professionals...

[how hard can it be to get a printer, internet connection and file sharing between four computers?!]

The diffrence between a router and a switch is one has a firewall/NAT security, the other does not.(a router has firewall/NAT)

Posted: **2005-09-06 08:02pm**

Where's the internet connection? Is it running from a DSL/Cable modem to the switch? You need to show us how the internet connection is configured in all this as well.

We don't need to know the physical layout; just show us a simple diagram showing us all of the network connections (including the internet connection).

Posted: **2005-09-06 09:03pm**

ALI_G wrote:FFS, what's the difference between a router and a switch? I hope I haven't spent money that's not even mine on the wrong thing.

Okay, you use a switch to get computers to talk to each other (you can use a hub, but a switch is more efficient). A router is a device that gets networks talking to each other. In this case, you need a router (technically a NAT router, but most home/small office routers do NAT) to get your network talking to the Internet at large. Some routers include switches, others don't.

For a cheap little diagram:

Internet <-> Router <-> Switch <-> Many Computers

If your printer directly connects into the switch, you'll probably have to use some sort of configuration tool.

I am in a world of shit here, I think next time I will leave things to the professionals...

You can do this. But next time, allocate time for planning and research, it will save you time and headaches.

[how hard can it be to get a printer, internet connection and file sharing between four computers?!]

It depends

Laird wrote:The diffrence between a router and a switch is one has a firewall/NAT security, the other does not.(a router has firewall/NAT)

A router need not have NAT or firewalls.

Posted: **2005-09-06 09:50pm**

Also, routers often have a DHCP server built in, while a hub/switch might not. In that case, set IP addresses statically.

Posted: **2005-09-07 08:19am**

Uraniun235 wrote:Where's the internet connection? Is it running from a DSL/Cable modem to the switch? You need to show us how the internet connection is configured in all this as well.

We don't need to know the physical layout; just show us a simple diagram showing us all of the network connections (including the internet connection).

Sorry - there is a DSL connection running directly into the host computer at D1. Then I have configured ICS to the other PC's [since this PC is always on I figured this is an o.k. setup].

Posted: **2005-09-07 08:21am**

OK so basically I need a router? Will the printer be detectable by all the PC's if I get one of these, and will I be able to view files all across the networked PC's?

If so then I will get one. Hopefully I can find a cheap one.

Posted: **2005-09-07 08:25am**

Would this be an acceptable Router? It's in my price range.

Posted: **2005-09-07 08:56am**

I am partial to Linksys with a wireless connection. I would say in the long run, if you can afford the wireless adaptors for the laptops, you can have mobility on them and thus not stuck like a desktop if one so chooses.

The printer connected to one of the computers will be shared throughout the entire network.

You can have it set up to have all the hard drives sharing their files in the properties section.

Edit #2!: Damn, going back and forth here as Ali G does have five computers. Since there are only four ports on the router.

Would it be possible for him to connect two computers to the switch and then the switch to one of the ports on the router?

Posted: **2005-09-07 09:00am**

ALI_G wrote:OK so basically I need a router? Will the printer be detectable by all the PC's if I get one of these, and will I be able to view files all across the networked PC's?

If you set things up right.

Posted: **2005-09-07 09:11am**

phongn wrote:
ALI_G wrote:OK so basically I need a router? Will the printer be detectable by all the PC's if I get one of these, and will I be able to view files all across the networked PC's?
If you set things up right.

Which has kind of been the problem so far, hasn't it?

An other question - I cannot physically connect the printer to any of the other computers due to the distance involved - the printer is in an other room to the office. Are there special cables that I can buy to connect it to a PC, or can I do this via a network connection? At the moment the printer is connected to the switch like I said via a network cable, but is only useable by the host computer for some reason. In fact there are no cables around that I could use to connect the printer to the back of the PC - there only seems to be the ethernet cable coming out of the back of it.

Posted: **2005-09-07 09:23am**

ALI_G wrote:[
An other question - I cannot physically connect the printer to any of the other computers due to the distance involved - the printer is in an other room to the office. Are there special cables that I can buy to connect it to a PC, or can I do this via a network connection?

What you need is a print server to get it on the network. HP and other manufacturers make little boxes that provide this function.

++http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?grp=NPE

At the moment the printer is connected to the switch like I said via a network cable, but is only useable by the host computer for some reason. In fact there are no cables around that I could use to connect the printer to the back of the PC - there only seems to be the ethernet cable coming out of the back of it.

Then your printer is already network ready.
Print out a test page and find the IP address.

Go to a computer on the network and choose to add a printer, a local printer. When it asks you for the port, choose to add a new port, a TCP/IP port, and give it the IP address of the printer.

Posted: **2005-09-07 10:16am**

ALI_G wrote:Would this be an acceptable Router? It's in my price range.

Ahh..D-Link!
Get thee behind me, Satan!

Faram's had no problems out of his, but I had no end of problems out of my DI-624 wireless router and the experience soured me on D-Link.

Besides, I'd recommend a router with more than just four LAN ports to allow for growth like this Netgear FVS-318 which has eight ports.

You might also want to consider this Trendnet print server. I bought this one a while back (I'm the 'Darrin' in the customer reviews) and it's worked flawlessly with both my HP Laserjet 1200 and HP Photosmart 7960 connected to it.

The only caution is that when you initally install the PS, you need to disable any firewall software on the computer in order for the setup wizard software to see the router. After you've installed it, you can turn it back on and the server will work fine after that.

Posted: **2005-09-07 12:31pm**

AT WORK UPDATE:

So once again I am at the office! I have bought that router listed above, along with a usb cable to link the printer to the D1 computer. I also fixed the broken connection for D2 with my trusty screwdriver!

Obviously things still aren't going well though. Turns out that the DSL modem I have is USB based and not Ethernet, and thus won't work with my ethernet based router. More worryingly I can no longer access the internet on the other networked machines anymore [this worked with the switch]. It goes without saying that the printer and file sharing still doesn't work.

Could somebody do me a semi-detailed check-list please? So far here is what I have done:

-Plugged in all the network cables into the router. Printer + DSL modem are both connected to host [D1] PC.
-Ran network setup wizard on host machine. PROBLEM: wizard asks me to select the internet connection. I select the DSL, then it comes up with a page saying that ICS cannot be set up because the IP address it needs is being used by an other computer or device. It tells me to disable ICS on 'Unknown Internet Connection sharing device', which is not helpful. Thus I disable ICS on every PC on the network [inc. host]. However, when I press 'next' an error screen comes up saying:

'The IP address [192.168.0.1] needed by ICS is still in use. Before you can continue, this must be made avaliable.

And it lets me continue no further.

Any ideas on how to get past this roadblock?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I am in big trouble and don't know what to do.

I am in big trouble and don't know what to do.

Re: I am in big trouble and don't know what to do.