Quick vanilla R:TW question

[Alferd Packer]

When playing as one of the Roman factions, when does the civil war begin? Is there a specific trigger, like capturing x provinces? Or does your strength relative to the other houses decide when it begins?

[Thirdfain]

You can start the civil war whenever your popularity with the People is high enough. It has to be pretty high: around 70 or 80%, I think. Bear in mind that you can chose whether or not to launch this war, and can let it wiat if you'd like.

[Alferd Packer]

You can start the civil war whenever your popularity with the People is high enough. It has to be pretty high: around 70 or 80%, I think. Bear in mind that you can chose whether or not to launch this war, and can let it wiat if you'd like.

Oh, I see. I'd like to launch it sooner, rather than later, then. The Scipii are contained and I've stolen half of Greece away from the Brutii(city revolts, I lay siege with onagers and attack that same turn, slaughter populace, city's mine), and I've got armies lying in wait in half a dozen spots, ready to attack. Do I attack the other factions first or go right for the throat and take Rome?

[Thirdfain]

Oh, I see. I'd like to launch it sooner, rather than later, then. The Scipii are contained and I've stolen half of Greece away from the Brutii(city revolts, I lay siege with onagers and attack that same turn, slaughter populace, city's mine), and I've got armies lying in wait in half a dozen spots, ready to attack. Do I attack the other factions first or go right for the throat and take Rome?

Both, if possible. My last Grand Campaign was as the Brutii, and I marched through the Julii to get at Rome. There's no reason not to take the city and eliminate the faction immediately, however.

[Arrow]

Also, if your Senate popularity falls too low, they'll declare you an outlaw, which is an alternate way to start the civil war.

[Duckie]

Also, if your Senate popularity falls too low, they'll declare you an outlaw, which is an alternate way to start the civil war.

I think this might only be possible for the Player and/or might also need Popularity with the Masses to work, because in my games everyone hates the AI Scipii but they're still in the Republic.- They had like 1 Pop with Senate and 3 with the People (mostly because they're doing sucky against Rebels in former Numidia and have barely done anything at all else) and they're not outlawed.

[Alferd Packer]

All I had to do was take one more province and I gained the needed popularity to start the war. A few observations, as I noticed that several other people are new to R:TW, too:

Exterminate the population of all large Brutii and Scipii cities you take! Not only do you get a shitton of money, but you can leave smaller garrisons behind and move on quicker. This is especially helpful when taking Greece from the Brutii, as most of the cities are already revolting.

In Africa, hire mercenary elephants. I did that with my 3/4-stack, mediocre army and have beaten six full stack Scipii armies. Elephants absolutely ruin morale. Once I added some onagers, the Scipii had no chance.

Bribe, bribe, bribe! Turn that full-stack enemy army into one of your own and lay siege with it! It doesn't matter if you win, because you'll usually draw attention away from your good army, which is on its way to sack a key province.

New question: The Brutii have been gutted. They only hold a few crappy provinces in the north and have pissed off Germania. The Scipii are faring better, holding all of Sicily a handful of African provinces, but almost their entire military is in Africa. It's only a matter of time, really, so who should I take next? The Britons are annoying, but easily dealt-with. The Germans are of little concern. The only other three factions left are the Scythians, Parthians, and Egyptians. Which would give me the most entertaining end game?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

New question: The Brutii have been gutted. They only hold a few crappy provinces in the north and have pissed off Germania. The Scipii are faring better, holding all of Sicily a handful of African provinces, but almost their entire military is in Africa. It's only a matter of time, really, so who should I take next? The Britons are annoying, but easily dealt-with. The Germans are of little concern. The only other three factions left are the Scythians, Parthians, and Egyptians. Which would give me the most entertaining end game?

The Egyptians are the most difficult by far. Their chariots will absolutely ruin you (relatively speaking, at least. I'm used to taking on enemies in the original version and coming out with little to no casualties, which simply isn't possible with Egypt). Bring lots of skirmishers and solid Roman infantry. The skirmishers get a bonus and will take less casualties with their lose formation, and your high-power infantry has the stopping power to grind the chariots up in the clusterfucks they're wont to start.

[KrauserKrauser]

I just got this game as I had been hearing so much about it.

First Imperial campaign as the Julii, the red guys, whatever. I just advanced to the point of getting archers but had a wierd thing happen to me.

I entered a battle against an all infantry german army with 6 my six units of archers. Well, we end up facing off wth the computer just standing there an me with the only missle troops. So I send my archers up to shoot and they start dying. They all get a few shots off but one by one each unit is losing archers to no source of missle fire. I still have no idea what happened. I don't know if friendly fire by archers in teh back hitting archers in teh front (which makes no sense whatsoever) or some phantom archers on teh opposing side.

Somehow spearmen, heavy and light germanic infantry were utterly destroying my archers by just standing there.

Anyone have any advice? Ever had this happen to you?

[Soontir C'boath]

In Vanilla, archers have a higher rate of friendly fire than the patch versions. It also helps if each unit are in front of each other looking towards an upward hill.

[KrauserKrauser]

The question is why would they code in friendly fire at all. It's not like they are firing straight. The concept of arced trajectories is not exactly a new one by the time. Massed archer fire should be quite good, it was historically so no reason it shouldn't stand true in the game.

It's not one or two guys were dying through the course of the battle. It was litterally six units of archers being halved in strength just by loosing the arrows. That is beyond dumb.

Why does this make any sense?

[Arrow]

The question is why would they code in friendly fire at all. It's not like they are firing straight. The concept of arced trajectories is not exactly a new one by the time. Massed archer fire should be quite good, it was historically so no reason it shouldn't stand true in the game.

It's not one or two guys were dying through the course of the battle. It was litterally six units of archers being halved in strength just by loosing the arrows. That is beyond dumb.

Why does this make any sense?

The patched version does fix this. I don't think this was coded in the game, but rather a natural result of the arrow collision detection code. If your archers are bunched up, the first thing the arrows from one row of archers are going to encounter are the backs of the archers in the next row up. The patchs have solved this problem.

[Chardok]

I have an RTW question! I am playing the egyptians, and am being absolutely decimated by the Selucids. Here's the thing: During the first part of the war, I was REALLY taking it to them with my light cavalry. I would use one unit of cavalry to draw them, then flank them with another unit. But now, it doesn't work! it doesn't matter if I flank them or anything, somehow, they are able to turn to face the charge after it's collide with their unit and demolish my horses! Even if after they've turned to face the flankers, I send in the OTHER unit (Which are now the flankers) they simply turn and annihilate THEM too! Seriously, at first I was giong into to battle at an almost 3:1 disadvantage in numbers, and I could scatter their army to the four winds with this tactic. Now, the only thing that works is to harry them with chariot archers and then back them off and use mass Archer fire to break their morale. Right now, I'm absolutely in my death throes, as the selucids have taken Alexandria, Sidon, Damascus (After I took it from them), Jerusalem, and Baston. All I have left is Memphis (Credit the large stone walls and pretty much nothing else), Thebes, (Squalor abounds, it is only a matter of time before I face a civil revolt) and Salamis (Which, due to it's isolation, I neglected military installations for the most part and focused on making it my powerhouse money cow.

What is a lonely pharoh to do?! Even my Chariots get decimated by the spearmen! The axemen get decimated by the spearmen, EVERYTHING GETS DECIMATED BY THE SPEARMEN EXCEPT ARCHERS WHICH GET DEIMATED BY THEIR SCYTHED FUCKING CHARIOTS!!!!1!1!

I would love to be able to fight back from this so no "Start the game over" replies! Just advice.

I should mention, that I have a master assassin which I regularly use to kill generals and captains at my disposal..so, consider that one of the assets you can use.


Hey, I was wondering. Is there a way to send saved games to other people? I mean, like, could we send the file via AIM or something and see if anyone can come up with a solution that way, or...?

[Duckie]

Jesus, I've never seen anyone get beaten that badly in Vanilla, but if there's anyone to do it the Seleucids can.

Safe to say you no longer have lots of money? If that cash cow city you have still makes the black ink, my best method so far is to lay down covering fire on chariots (I did this against Britons, but it's likely the same) while I bog them with light infantry on one side, and then counter-charge new infantry or heavy cavalry into them to hopefully get them stuck in a mass of blades. Where hopefully your own battle line will eventually reform before the enemy infantry reaches you (AI loves to send fast units first for some reason). I don't know about Egypt, but as the Julii I can reliably kill Chariots easily, but it's the havoc they play with my infantry lines that gets me lost as new barbarians flow around the holes and slaughter me.

Phalanxes, which I assume they are using, are easily beaten by sacrificing a light unit to their front and wheeling cavalry or chariots (especially chariots) around to their backs or sides. You need to utterly break their formation and get them to drop their pikes in the charge, which means you need to penetrate into the middle of the formation. Are your cavalry getting that far?

Mass Pharoah's Bowmen is the best archery in the game except perhaps Cretans. Mass PB, plus as light infantry as possible that can still attack (no peasants. Whatever is their equivilent of Hastati), plus chariots and cavalry.

[Soontir C'boath]

Have you or they been upgrading at the blacksmith? Even a +1 can make a difference in fighting.
I suggest moving in quick with two units per one of theirs if you can..

The saved games are in the Total War folder.

[Darth Wong]

I have an RTW question! I am playing the egyptians, and am being absolutely decimated by the Selucids. Here's the thing: During the first part of the war, I was REALLY taking it to them with my light cavalry. I would use one unit of cavalry to draw them, then flank them with another unit. But now, it doesn't work! it doesn't matter if I flank them or anything, somehow, they are able to turn to face the charge after it's collide with their unit and demolish my horses!

Egyptian light cavalry is useless at melee combat. They do all of their damage on the initial charge, and then must either withdraw or die. If you got away with letting them charge spearmen and then engage in melee combat during the early phase of the war, it could only have been due to the enemy having shitty troops with bad morale. They probably broke and routed the moment they were charged from the flank. More elite troops will stand their ground after the initial losses, and your horses will die. If you want cavalry which can fight in melee without swiftly dying, get cataphracts (unfortunately, the Egyptians can't recruit cataphracts, while the Seleucids can).

Even if after they've turned to face the flankers, I send in the OTHER unit (Which are now the flankers) they simply turn and annihilate THEM too!

That's because attempting to destroy phalanxes with light cavalry and no infantry support is suicide. It could only have worked earlier in the game when they had very low quality troops.

Seriously, at first I was giong into to battle at an almost 3:1 disadvantage in numbers, and I could scatter their army to the four winds with this tactic. Now, the only thing that works is to harry them with chariot archers and then back them off and use mass Archer fire to break their morale.

Ummmm ... why aren't you using your own phalanxes to counter theirs? You should be pinning their spearmen in place with your own, and then using more mobile units such as axemen and cavalry to flank them and hit them while they can't turn around.

Right now, I'm absolutely in my death throes, as the selucids have taken Alexandria, Sidon, Damascus (After I took it from them), Jerusalem, and Baston. All I have left is Memphis (Credit the large stone walls and pretty much nothing else), Thebes, (Squalor abounds, it is only a matter of time before I face a civil revolt) and Salamis (Which, due to it's isolation, I neglected military installations for the most part and focused on making it my powerhouse money cow.

Sounds like they've overrun most of your starting territory.

What is a lonely pharoh to do?! Even my Chariots get decimated by the spearmen! The axemen get decimated by the spearmen, EVERYTHING GETS DECIMATED BY THE SPEARMEN EXCEPT ARCHERS WHICH GET DEIMATED BY THEIR SCYTHED FUCKING CHARIOTS!!!!1!1!

So I must ask again: why the fuck haven't you been building your own spearmen? Spearmen are the basic infantry unit of the Ptolemaic empire!

I would love to be able to fight back from this so no "Start the game over" replies! Just advice.

I should mention, that I have a master assassin which I regularly use to kill generals and captains at my disposal..so, consider that one of the assets you can use.

Hah ... I never use assassins. For one thing, they almost never succeed in killing high-ranked enemies on VH/VH difficulty. For another, it is more gratifying to slaughter the enemy general in battle.

Hey, I was wondering. Is there a way to send saved games to other people? I mean, like, could we send the file via AIM or something and see if anyone can come up with a solution that way, or...?

Look in your C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\saves directory. Remember that whoever you send it to must be running the same patch level (RTW is currently at 1.3 ever since BI came out, but for a very long time everyone was running 1.2, and most people without BI are still running 1.2).

PS. Late-game Seleucids may have the strongest mix of military units in the game; it's a tossup between them and the Romans, who have superior infantry but suffer from a cavalry disadvantage in comparison. Not that they're invincible, but they would be quite a challenge if you've allowed them to become that powerful.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

That's because attempting to destroy phalanxes with light cavalry and no infantry support is suicide. It could only have worked earlier in the game when they had very low quality troops.

Bit of a nitpick here: I've been playing a new vanilla Julii campaign after having installed BI, and they've really overdone the buffing of spearmen vs. cavalry. Charging a phalanx with cavalry period is suicide now, as my poor general and his bodyguard learned the hard way after I had a phalanx pinned with hastati and half of the general's bodyguard's horses apparantly tripped over the phalangites' ankles, killing everyone in the process. Except, of course, the phalangites themselves.

Further testing is on the docket.

[Thirdfain]

Wait a minute. I play my games as Rome under a self-imposed rule to use no cavalry heavier than Auxilia (or, after Marius, Roman.) Despite this, I've had huge success using light cavalry-only units vs. phalangites. Use one to distract, 1 to charge, and then promptly charge with the distracting unit. The phalanx will melt.

=edit=

Ooops, I'm playing Vanilla. I guess it's changed in BI?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Wait a minute. I play my games as Rome under a self-imposed rule to use no cavalry heavier than Auxilia (or, after Marius, Roman.) Despite this, I've had huge success using light cavalry-only units vs. phalangites. Use one to distract, 1 to charge, and then promptly charge with the distracting unit. The phalanx will melt.

=edit=

Ooops, I'm playing Vanilla. I guess it's changed in BI?

Vanilla patched to BI's version, yes. Spearmen apparantly no longer have to be facing their enemy to kill them...

[Darth Wong]

It's probably a morale function. If you hit a phalanx from behind and they break, then you can run them down easily. But if you hit a phalanx from behind and they keep discipline, then you'll kill some of them with the initial charge but they'll start killing your horses pretty quick unless you get them out of there. Hell, even peasants can do terrible damage to light cavalry if they don't break after the initial charge and the cavalry has trouble getting out of there quickly.

[Thirdfain]

I know that even on V. hard battle difficulty, being charged in the rear twice by Equites will do in Phalanx Pikemen, at least every time I did it. I don't know about the more durable Phalangite unites, though.

In any case, losing like you are probably means that you aren't properly tying down the enemy phalangites for flanking maneuvers, and that means you need to use phalanx or heavy infantry of your own.

[Darth Wong]

Seleucids have the best phalanxes in the game, in my experience. I remember one encounter (as Seleucia) with a Macedonian army in which I was going to flank them with my cavalry once the phalanxes clashed, but before I could wheel my cavalry around to hit their formations from behind they were already routing. Closer examination of the replay showed that my spearmen were rapidly killing theirs during the initial clash, without any help from supporting troops.

[Chardok]

Egyptian light cavalry is useless at melee combat. They do all of their damage on the initial charge, and then must either withdraw or die.

I'm finding that out...

If you got away with letting them charge spearmen and then engage in melee combat during the early phase of the war, it could only have been due to the enemy having shitty troops with bad morale. They probably broke and routed the moment they were charged from the flank.

You're absolutely right. What was happening is that I'm sending in a unit of Chariots and moving to another section of the battle, foolishly assuming that the troops were breaking as they always had, when I would look down at the bottom of the screen and see my glorious unit of Bronze sword bronze chevron chariots with a white flag icon. *sigh*

More elite troops will stand their ground after the initial losses, and your horses will die. If you want cavalry which can fight in melee without swiftly dying, get cataphracts (unfortunately, the Egyptians can't recruit cataphracts, while the Seleucids can).

Blarrgh! I want to master egyptian tactics!

Ummmm ... why aren't you using your own phalanxes to counter theirs? You should be pinning their spearmen in place with your own, and then using more mobile units such as axemen and cavalry to flank them and hit them while they can't turn around.

My phalnxes suck rabid donkey balls. I mostly leave them in place to take on a cavalry charge (Which is all they seem to be good for. If I march them up to a selucid Palanx, they don't seem to last very long (Nubian spearmen). Yeah, not even long enough to wheel the cavalry around. I could have the cavalry run like hell the whole time, but they tire quite quickly. But I suppose tired is better than dead.

Sounds like they've overrun most of your starting territory.

Yep...Now all I have is Thebes, (Which, for some reason, the enemy doesn't seem to care about) and Salamis (Rapidly beoming a military powerhouse now. It's pulling down a couple thousand every turn, while still maintaining one HELL of a fleet around the island and building up for a massive assault on land. Seems that is going to be the spearhead of my thrust. board two full armies with at least bronze swords and armor complete with pharoh's bowmen and Onagers onto two ships, Clear a path with my ion cannon (Errmm...that is to say, fleet) and assault Sidon (My former military crown jewel) Which I will use as a staging ground for further assaults back into my territory. I do not know how weel fortified Sidon is anymore, though. When I left her she had large stone walls (The reason for the onagers/bowmen.

So I must ask again: why the fuck haven't you been building your own spearmen? Spearmen are the basic infantry unit of the Ptolemaic empire!

Like I said, I have been, but #1. they don't last long and #2. I'm not very good using them. And I don't even know what ptolemic means. (:P)

[/quote]Hah ... I never use assassins. For one thing, they almost never succeed in killing high-ranked enemies on VH/VH difficulty. For another, it is more gratifying to slaughter the enemy general in battle.[/quote]

I dunno, assassins are great for killing family members, ESPECIALLY fearsome generals with many command stars and large retinues which I do NOT want commanding armies I'm facing. I'd rather have them in the ground long before the battle.

Update on Kukathemet The Killer: Retinue expands! I HAVE A MONKEY! Want to touch it?

PS. Late-game Seleucids may have the strongest mix of military units in the game; it's a tossup between them and the Romans, who have superior infantry but suffer from a cavalry disadvantage in comparison. Not that they're invincible, but they would be quite a challenge if you've allowed them to become that powerful.

I hope to counter this effect with the patented chardokian tactic of Improper Utilization of Siege Engines™ (Or I USE)

[Duckie]

I dunno, assassins are great for killing family members, ESPECIALLY fearsome generals with many command stars and large retinues which I do NOT want commanding armies I'm facing. I'd rather have them in the ground long before the battle.

How do you get your assasins to work so well? I spawned like 10 of them, mostly 1-skill or 0-skills. After an extended assault against Germanic family members, one of them survived to get 3 skill only to be taken down in his next misson.

Same with Spies, although they appear to work too well... All of my spies rapidly move up to 3 skill, where they are oddly enough able to see everything with 100% odds. Then they rot away to old age...

[Stark]

Start with diplomats, rebel leaders, and other easy targets. I don't attack unless the odds are better than 70%, and I get several 8-level assassins pretty easy. Just train them on the easy stuff: decent targets (like family members) will SLAUGHTER low-level assassins. I've NEVER killed a hier or ruler with assassins (although I've seen it done).