Recommend a 2-4hr multi game

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-20 07:31pm

I'm looking for a multi game, of any genre, that has long sessions. Dawn of Rush is out, since games last five minutes: most FPSs are out too, but System Shock 2 has co-op, for instance.

Oh, and it has to be good.

I'm intending it for netplay, so turn-based is probably bad. I guess I'm looking for long-game strategy, since I can't think of any good FPS co-op games... but Halo co-op was fun on XBox. Help me out!

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-11-20 08:43pm

What do you mean by long sessions? You can have tons fun with some pals and a bunch of bots in UT25k.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-20 08:49pm

A UT2004 ONS game lasts maybe 10 minutes. I'm looking for something contiguous, and not repeating small games like 'many games of DoW' or 'many games of UT2k4'.

And pub servers are full of whiny lamers who hate it when five people join at once and turn the game around by themselves.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2005-11-20 08:56pm

Something like Neverwinter Nights maybe? Don't know if the people you plan on playing with would be averse to an rpg, but you'd certainly get long enugh sessions out of it...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-11-20 09:27pm

Defense of the Ancients for Warcraft 3 (Frozen Throne) has fairly long sessions.

Alternatively, grab some huge maps for Total Annihilation.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-20 09:32pm

namdoolb wrote:Something like Neverwinter Nights maybe? Don't know if the people you plan on playing with would be averse to an rpg, but you'd certainly get long enugh sessions out of it...

Is NWN level-grinding garbage like Dungeon Siege 2?

U235 wrote:Defense of the Ancients for Warcraft 3 (Frozen Throne) has fairly long sessions.

Alternatively, grab some huge maps for Total Annihilation.

I'll have a look at the WC3 expansions. TA is an interesting suggestion (although I'd play an original-stat version of Spring)... in my experience, TA big maps lead to fifteen minutes of massive nuke barrages. :S

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-11-20 09:56pm

Is NWN level-grinding garbage like Dungeon Siege 2?

Many server vaults, yeah. Hence why I avoid them. Local vault servers are less populous, but whip up a character and do whatever it is the server is based on with no grinding silliness. There's all kinds of sub communities, from PvP, "ubering" (the "art" of hacking your character to ridiculous extremes and then getting in massive deathmatches. It's not really cheating because everyone on the server is agreeing to it and trying to outdo each other), peristent world type servers, to just plain straight up roleplaying (my personal preferance).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-20 09:59pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Many server vaults, yeah. Hence why I avoid them. Local vault servers are less populous, but whip up a character and do whatever it is the server is based on with no grinding silliness. There's all kinds of sub communities, from PvP, "ubering" (the "art" of hacking your character to ridiculous extremes and then getting in massive deathmatches. It's not really cheating because everyone on the server is agreeing to it and trying to outdo each other), peristent world type servers, to just plain straight up roleplaying (my personal preferance).

That actually sounds okay. DS2 disappointed me with it's 'Diablo with 3d' thing. :S

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2005-11-20 10:24pm

Neverwinter Nights...

...I don't understand why you don't want to play FPS. Games may last 10 minutes, but the rush to kill lasts hours and hours and I get bored of it after a few hours then drop it. Next time when I get the rush to kill, another 4 hours.

MMORPG, RPG, are bad because they make you think of the game outside of those 4 hours. I'm never thinking of how I'm going to frag someone -- it's all point and click -- but I'm thinking of build orders and unit matchups when playing strategy games outside of the actual game, and RPG, man thinking about them all the time when I'm into it. If you want a self-contained 4 hours of fun with nothing else outside, FPS are perfect.

If you want my Neverwinter Nights, I can sell it to you Stark, it's been sitting on my shelf for years. I don't have the manual but I have the CD's. At cost (whatever it costs for me to ship it to you).

Brian

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-11-20 10:29pm

You might try some of the Paradox titles. EU II can easily support hours long sessions of grand strategy and be interesting throughout, the newest patches are in many ways a completely different game; a wealth of user mods are also availible. Battles are relatively simple, but it does help avoid the click-fest that so many RTS games devolve into.

You can also try Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, or Victoria. I haven't played multiplayer on the first with the most recent patches and have done very little with the latter two. The big thing is you can get the lot for cheap as part of a six pack and if you like grand strategy; something between the Norman invasion and WWII which is enjoyable should be included.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-11-20 11:29pm

If you want a halfway decent strategy game with some fun multiplayer options, try out Conquest: Frontier Wars. Up to 8 players, human or AI. It's similar to Starcraft in many respects, except that the map of the game spans several star systems (it's fleet combat), and requires an island-hopping approach to victory. You can't just send off your fleet and hit the win button, as all ships have limited supplies, and you can't maintain a supply line until you establish a foothold in a system.

There's a demo available here. Google can probably help you find other sources if you are averse to fileplanet for some reason. Note that the demo only includes one of the three races, but IIRC, does include the full tech tree for that race.

Also, it's easy to introduce new players to the game, since you can actually have two or more people playing as the same player spot. One person can focus on the economy, the other focusing on the fleet and combat.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-21 12:09am

Let's test my quote-fu...

Hotfoot, I actually have Conquest, and it's nifty. But the 'unfinished' nature of the game (play as other than Terran = you lose) limits the appeal somewhat. *I* like it, though, so I'll mention it. You don't happen to know of any hacks to raise the unit limit above 250 do you?

Tharkun, I don't know anything about EU2 or related games. I'm googling now, but the main issues (info presentation, fiddly orders and bad interface) usually aren't mentioned much in 'strategy game' reviews. Can you give me the inside track on that? If you've played Dominions 2, I hated the unecessary repetition of orders every turn, or the difficulty in getting information about your holdings, armies and opponents.

Brian, it's not that I don't want to play FPS's. I rule all at FPS's, however, and nobody likes a) being constantly beaten by me or b) all of us defeating all the n00b lamers in AU at ONS. It's a problem that the group is too small to play LAN without bots, and too big to easily fit into a lamer pub-server without causing horror.

It's interesting that you mention 'self-contained fun', actually: that almost describes what I'm looking to avoid. I don't want to play a pile of unconnected 5-minute RTS sessions (ZOMG my build slipped by 2 seconds and I lost this time! Let's go again!), I'm looking for something with a bit more scope. I'm trying to track down a list of FPSs with co-op campaigns, but google is being a slut about it.

Thanks for all your input. Being horribly negative about games in general, I'm sure I've missed or overlooked something that's just what I want. I'll crank out Conquest and see what I can find out about EU2. Keep the suggestions coming!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-21 12:11am

Dumbass EDIT - Hotfoot, I've had Conquest for years and I never played this 'two guys on one team' thing you mention. I'm going to check it out now. It better not be good! :p

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-11-21 12:24am

By the way, there are several mods for Conquest, I've just never tried them. You can also get the 1.07 patch which has some final fixes from the dev team (even though it's "unofficial"), and of course, it, like the 1.05 patch before it, negate the need for a CD in the drive to play.

In order to get two people on the same team by the way, just both players be the same color.

Also, when it comes to FPS games, you may want to consider Rainbow Six: Raven Shield and the subsequent expansions. If you don't want to play versus, there's a fair amount of Co-Op content that I've found to be enjoyable, though it can get repetative after a while I suppose, given that it's just AI.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-11-21 12:50am

The only source I can find for the 1.07 patch is Fileplanet, and it isn't showing me any servers to download from. Is there another link?

[FOOLPLANET EDIT] - I wasn't aware of FPs new 'treat users like shit and make them wait for two minutes of no line activity before showing them the list of horribly-busy servers' policy. Ugh. When will Google own the internet again?

We've played SWAT 4 a bit, which is fun until you get to the ridiculous 'forty guys with AKs' missions. I haven't even looked at Raven Shield.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-11-21 01:09am

You could download the original Duke Nukem 3d game, the multi-player mode is still fun, very easy to do and can be played even on antique school Computers.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-11-21 01:14am

Stark wrote:Tharkun, I don't know anything about EU2 or related games. I'm googling now, but the main issues (info presentation, fiddly orders and bad interface) usually aren't mentioned much in 'strategy game' reviews. Can you give me the inside track on that? If you've played Dominions 2, I hated the unecessary repetition of orders every turn, or the difficulty in getting information about your holdings, armies and opponents.

Of the games Tharkun recommended, I recommend Hearts of Iron. It can be played on a crappy computer, is very addictive and costs $30AUD.

It's not perfect, sometimes the interface can be a little odd, but it's well worth it.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2005-11-21 03:22am

Operation Flashpoint is your game. The cooperative in that is incredible, given the right mission, and a mission will last anywhere between 10 minutes if you aren't cooperating, to over an hour to get some of the trickier ones right. I have coop missions which are designed for 24 people with full armoured support.

In my experience, we have burnt literally an entire evening's worth of LAN (8pm to 8am) on just one mission, trying to get it right, trying different approaches, and when we pulled it off perfectly it was an incredible rush, we were high-fiving each other and waking the neighbours with the rejoicing. It's very addictive.

Another good one for cooperative would be Raven Shield. Go through the entire campaign in cooperative, that'll easily burn a few days. Tactics and strategy apply here, although it is possible to cheapskate the AI sometimes, but it's great stuff. Iron Wrath is a free expansion released by Ubi for it which weights in at a 1Gb download but adds in even more properly designed maps for it.

SWAT 4 isn't bad either, but it's not quite as strict as RvS, you can't set the parameter "next mission on success of this one, or else keep repeating", so it requires tighter admin control, but is fun too.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-11-21 11:56am

I don't know anything about EU2 or related games. I'm googling now, but the main issues (info presentation, fiddly orders and bad interface) usually aren't mentioned much in 'strategy game' reviews. Can you give me the inside track on that? If you've played Dominions 2, I hated the unecessary repetition of orders every turn, or the difficulty in getting information about your holdings, armies and opponents.

Info is straight forward with a few minor glitches that are only important once you have gotten so far up the learning curve it no longer matters. In most cases whatever you want to know can be found either by looking at a summary page (i.e. the budget) or hovering the mouse for explanations and more detail.

Orders are extremely simple, being grand strategy you can only move, split, recombine, or disband armies. When at battle your army fights until it dies, routs, or you try to force it to flee.

Interface is slow when you play on the faster settings and annoying to manage trade, colonization, religion, and raising troops while also managing a war; however it is standard practice to dial down the speed when major conflict breaks out.

This is RTS, albeit extremely grand strategy. There are no turns. You can dial the speed up or down (from 5 minutes to the year up to 5 years to the minute as I recall) as needed and there is a pause button (frowned upon overuse in MP games). Getting information about your opponents, such as can be had, is gotten through ledger screens which graph relative progress of your competition - army size, tech level, income, etc. You can use a few other techniques to get more information (such as where all the enemy troops are located), but that would require a basic knowledge of the game to explain.

EU II is on surface a very simple game. At most, there are six improvements for provinces. Armies are simple - they always consist of cavalry, infantry, and/or arty. Navies are galleys, warships, and/or transports. Technology increases various parts of your economy incrementally, opens up new abilities (like colonization), improves quality of forces (no retraining), and lets you build new structures. You have four tech areas to invest in, and you you have to research each tech in order (trade 2 before trade 3) but there is no interdepedence among areas.

There is a wealth of fun stuff buried beneath the basics there, but this isn't a C&C or WC clickfest. You get to plan national strategy for 400 years. You can go exploring and colonizing to become an economic powerhouse, you can attempt to crush your neighbors for their European holdings, and diplomacy can get extremely byzantine. Add to this suprisingly good historical events, leaders, problems (your most aristocratic court just spawned a peasant revolt), and the game is my personal favorite for grand strategy.

If you go with EU II, HoI, or another Paradox title you can read ubiquitious amounts of information here:

Paradox Forums

FAQs may be slightly outdated, because Paradox is still providing support and making the games better, but the community is more than willing to answer questions.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-11-21 12:33pm

If I'm bored, nothing like a good few hours of Counter-Strike: Source or HL2: Deathmatch.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2005-11-21 08:48pm

Secret of Mana (aka Seiken Densetsu 2) and Seiken Densetsu 3 for SNES/SuperFamicom. Use an emulator with netplay like SNES9X.