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In a similar vein to haas mark's thread, I'm looking for advice. I've never played a pen/paper RPG game, but after reading a bit about them, I'm quite interested. Can anyone throw some tips or hints my way? Note that I've got the dramatic abilities of Shatner. On a good day.

BTW, the only thing that turns me off is the reliance on dice rolls. It breaks the reality. I'm making a snap decision on how best to kill a dragon, knowing that my party's life hangs in the balance...but before I do anything, I have to roll 20000 d20s to pass all the checks?! I'd imagine that making dice a seamless part of the game is mainly up to the GM, but if anyone has any suggestions on game systems/etc, feel free to throw it my way. I'm looking more for general help as a PC, however.

I read the entirety of the site linked to in haas mark's thread, too.

Thanks guys!

It'd help to know what sort of RPGs you were looking at, or what your interests were in...

Find an Amber Diceless group near you then.

The best diceless system by far. You play a near-godlike figure with a shitload of power and its all about the scheming and the fucking over of everyone else.

The RPG that I'm currently infatuated with, Mage: The Ascension is very minimal on the dice rolls. Five or six sessions in, and I'm the only person who's ever had to roll.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:The RPG that I'm currently infatuated with, Mage: The Ascension is very minimal on the dice rolls. Five or six sessions in, and I'm the only person who's ever had to roll.

Mage or any of the original white wolf series games usually have limited die rolling. Of Mage(Ascension), Vampire(Masquerade) and Werewolf(Apocalypse), werewolf for me seems to have the most dice rolling but then again werewolf is more about wrecking stuff then any other game.

The new White Wolf games(Vampire Requiem, Mage Awakening, Werewolf Forsaken) are overrun with pointless dice rolling and rules that force the introduction of extra dice to make it more confusing. Nothing destroys the mood of the game then having to say "Hey how many die extra do I get to roll because I'm using an uzi? 2 or 3?" Also in the new rules difficult is always 8+ for every roll no matter how trivial it is. In the original rules the GM had discretion on what a difficulty for a roll was to be.

Badme wrote:In a similar vein to haas mark's thread, I'm looking for advice. I've never played a pen/paper RPG game, but after reading a bit about them, I'm quite interested. Can anyone throw some tips or hints my way? Note that I've got the dramatic abilities of Shatner. On a good day.

The most important thing is having fun. Try to act as your character would, but at times, try to skew your actions from the boring to the dramatic, especially if the mood is tepid around the table. A character with goals is paramount -- as long as you have a motivation, you'll be fine. Also, don't be afraid to ham it up at times.

("Here, along these walls, I have carved all the names of all the people in past milennia who have fallen before me. Oh, and those skeletons aren't among them... they're just kinda here to set the right mood...")

Furthermore, give the game a few sessions before you judge its worth. It takes time for a good group of players to synch -- some groups never do, but when yours does, you'll have a truly unforgettable experience. Role playing is all about communication, and a good group will give you a synergy effect in that regard.

("Gamemastering her, then?"
"Yeah, but I had to promise her that there wouldn't be too much in the way of torture and anguish... that's why my inspiration's all gone...")

Oh, and if in some scenes you feel the onset of tense atmosphere, try to rein in any silly jokes and such. It's pretty hard, I grant you, but rather like when watching a movie, puncturing the atmosphere can make people around you annoyed. The fact that some of the silliest quotes in the galaxy have arisen from such situation is, of course, irrelevant.

("Roll to Dodge."
"Dodge what?"
"...venereal diseases...")

Badme wrote:BTW, the only thing that turns me off is the reliance on dice rolls. It breaks the reality. I'm making a snap decision on how best to kill a dragon, knowing that my party's life hangs in the balance...but before I do anything, I have to roll 20000 d20s to pass all the checks?! I'd imagine that making dice a seamless part of the game is mainly up to the GM, but if anyone has any suggestions on game systems/etc, feel free to throw it my way.

WitchCraft is probably the system you want, but I dunno if the setting is up your alley. It is, however, a superior system, and the link above leads you to the corebook as a free download, which is really all you need to play. The Buffy system is a lite version of this, and may be one of the best systems I've ever bought. Put like this -- the Angel system is virtually similar, and even though I already owned Buffy I bought Angel and felt positively enriched.

I've just finished a rough translation of the T10 system into English, however, and that's probably the best system I know of for that sort of thing. However, I've only translated the essential mechanics (a system reference document), so there are no skills, abilities, weapons or magic spells in it, yet. But give me a holler if you want to have a look.

Note that shitloads of dice aren't really used in the slicker systems out there. The T10 system, for example, uses a single d10 for every action, whatever it may be. You only roll once, and yet, it gives all the detail one would need.

Badme wrote:I'm looking more for general help as a PC, however.

I'm confused. PC generally stands for Player Character. What do you need to know more specifically about playing one?

LongVin wrote: Mage or any of the original white wolf series games usually have limited die rolling. Of Mage(Ascension), Vampire(Masquerade) and Werewolf(Apocalypse), werewolf for me seems to have the most dice rolling but then again werewolf is more about wrecking stuff then any other game.

Werewolf's mechanics are an abomination. I've seen continuous battles being played in that system where neither combattant ever managed to shift the balance from an impasse; they just rolled their mountain of dice, counted the successes and did their damage, regenerated it all, rinse and repeat until the rest of the group just calls it a night and goes home in disgust.

LongVin wrote: The new White Wolf games(Vampire Requiem, Mage Awakening, Werewolf Forsaken) are overrun with pointless dice rolling and rules that force the introduction of extra dice to make it more confusing. Nothing destroys the mood of the game then having to say "Hey how many die extra do I get to roll because I'm using an uzi? 2 or 3?" Also in the new rules difficult is always 8+ for every roll no matter how trivial it is. In the original rules the GM had discretion on what a difficulty for a roll was to be.

This is where you ignore/tweak the bits you don't like. For a WoD game I'm planning on running at some point I've changed it so that botches (dramatic failures) can happen on any roll where the player rolls a 1 with no success, rather than only on chance rolls.

Sharp-kun wrote: This is where you ignore/tweak the bits you don't like. For a WoD game I'm planning on running at some point I've changed it so that botches (dramatic failures) can happen on any roll where the player rolls a 1 with no success, rather than only on chance rolls.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: if a system has to be tweaked in order to work, it's not as good as a system that works from the get-go. A system's merit can't be judged on how it works with certain, and undefined, modifications made, although I would agree that ease of modification would be a point in its favour.

And having played around with Vampire a bit, I'm gonna have to say that it's no easier to modify than other games, d20 excluded.

Sharp-kun wrote:

LongVin wrote: The new White Wolf games(Vampire Requiem, Mage Awakening, Werewolf Forsaken) are overrun with pointless dice rolling and rules that force the introduction of extra dice to make it more confusing. Nothing destroys the mood of the game then having to say "Hey how many die extra do I get to roll because I'm using an uzi? 2 or 3?" Also in the new rules difficult is always 8+ for every roll no matter how trivial it is. In the original rules the GM had discretion on what a difficulty for a roll was to be.

This is where you ignore/tweak the bits you don't like. For a WoD game I'm planning on running at some point I've changed it so that botches (dramatic failures) can happen on any roll where the player rolls a 1 with no success, rather than only on chance rolls.

Accidental die rolls (in OpenRPG) as we're exiting a car:

Player: Die roll 1 out of 10
Player: Die rolls 10 out of 10
Player: Damn it, sorry.
GM: Failing your exiting car roll, you trip and almost crack your head against the curb. But you shut the door fantastically.

Badme, are you only looking to play face-to-face games, or would you consider playing via OpenRPG (a program that combines a chat interface with a map and a dieroller)?

Eleas wrote:Werewolf's mechanics are an abomination. I've seen continuous battles being played in that system where neither combattant ever managed to shift the balance from an impasse; they just rolled their mountain of dice, counted the successes and did their damage, regenerated it all, rinse and repeat until the rest of the group just calls it a night and goes home in disgust.

I haven't seen the newest version, but unless you were using it in the above anecdote and there have been some major changes, there are a couple things wrong with that picture. In W:tA 2nd ed they take a full day of rest to regenerate aggravated damage (Teeth, claws, silver, fire, toxic waste, etc). If they really wanted to hurt each other and were trying to do so with nonaggro damage (Fists, bullets, etc) for IC reasons (IE: The Veil) and it wasn't working, they should've started getting more Rage rolls at lower difficulty due to the frusteration of the other guy continuing to get back up until somebody broke off the fight or frenzied and used teeth and claws.

Eleas wrote:

LongVin wrote: Mage or any of the original white wolf series games usually have limited die rolling. Of Mage(Ascension), Vampire(Masquerade) and Werewolf(Apocalypse), werewolf for me seems to have the most dice rolling but then again werewolf is more about wrecking stuff then any other game.

Werewolf's mechanics are an abomination. I've seen continuous battles being played in that system where neither combattant ever managed to shift the balance from an impasse; they just rolled their mountain of dice, counted the successes and did their damage, regenerated it all, rinse and repeat until the rest of the group just calls it a night and goes home in disgust.

Tell me about it. In a Mage game we vsed Werewolves the only way we won was by basically chopping the thing to bits with axes and swords after it absorbed tons of small arms fire and a grenade hit.

After that since my mage had prime I always "Primed up" my bullets so they were able to actually hurt the damn things.

Sharp-kun wrote:

LongVin wrote: The new White Wolf games(Vampire Requiem, Mage Awakening, Werewolf Forsaken) are overrun with pointless dice rolling and rules that force the introduction of extra dice to make it more confusing. Nothing destroys the mood of the game then having to say "Hey how many die extra do I get to roll because I'm using an uzi? 2 or 3?" Also in the new rules difficult is always 8+ for every roll no matter how trivial it is. In the original rules the GM had discretion on what a difficulty for a roll was to be.

This is where you ignore/tweak the bits you don't like. For a WoD game I'm planning on running at some point I've changed it so that botches (dramatic failures) can happen on any roll where the player rolls a 1 with no success, rather than only on chance rolls.

Yeah basically thats what we did before we decided to go back fully to original rules. At first we mixed and matched original white wolf rules with the new WoD rules but we just got annoyed with the system because some of the stuff didn't convert properly.

LongVin wrote:Tell me about it. In a Mage game we vsed Werewolves the only way we won was by basically chopping the thing to bits with axes and swords after it absorbed tons of small arms fire and a grenade hit.

After that since my mage had prime I always "Primed up" my bullets so they were able to actually hurt the damn things.

Your Magi need to watch a movie once in a while. Unless the wolves jumped them with total surprise it should've gone like:

Player: "I wave my <insert favorite focus> at the tiny-ass .38 revolver, using Matter 2 to change the bullets from lead to silver, then open fire."

GM: Let's see... No soak at all, and Mage For Teh Win!

Badme wrote:In a similar vein to haas mark's thread, I'm looking for advice. I've never played a pen/paper RPG game, but after reading a bit about them, I'm quite interested. Can anyone throw some tips or hints my way? Note that I've got the dramatic abilities of Shatner. On a good day.

BTW, the only thing that turns me off is the reliance on dice rolls. It breaks the reality. I'm making a snap decision on how best to kill a dragon, knowing that my party's life hangs in the balance...but before I do anything, I have to roll 20000 d20s to pass all the checks?! I'd imagine that making dice a seamless part of the game is mainly up to the GM, but if anyone has any suggestions on game systems/etc, feel free to throw it my way. I'm looking more for general help as a PC, however.

I read the entirety of the site linked to in haas mark's thread, too.

Thanks guys!

If you hate dice rolls, play Paranoia. The only thing there that keeps you alive are your bootlicking skills, and machivelian skills.

Clicking on the following link is mandatory, Citizen. Failure to comply is punishable by summary execution.

http://www.costik.com/paranoia/

Or - another in Paranoia is forget what the GM says and roll whatever damn dice you want.

For example in one game:

You need to roll an 8 or less (on a d10 IIRC), so the player picks up a d4 and rolls that.

Eleas wrote:

Badme wrote:I'm looking more for general help as a PC, however.

I'm confused. PC generally stands for Player Character. What do you need to know more specifically about playing one?

Well, PC as opposed to GM. Yeah, just slightly redundant of me.

LongVin wrote: The new White Wolf games(Vampire Requiem, Mage Awakening, Werewolf Forsaken) are overrun with pointless dice rolling and rules that force the introduction of extra dice to make it more confusing. Nothing destroys the mood of the game then having to say "Hey how many die extra do I get to roll because I'm using an uzi? 2 or 3?" Also in the new rules difficult is always 8+ for every roll no matter how trivial it is. In the original rules the GM had discretion on what a difficulty for a roll was to be.

That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I can't have fun when my suspension of disbelief is constantly being broken.

DPDarkPrimus wrote: The RPG that I'm currently infatuated with, Mage: The Ascension is very minimal on the dice rolls. Five or six sessions in, and I'm the only person who's ever had to roll.

Interesting. I like the idea of a fantasy-oriented game as opposed to, say, superhero or sci-fi. And to respond to Arthur, I prefer a face-to-face game. Online play is fine for FPS and RTS, but I can't act over a text-only game with people I don't know in person.

Oh, Paranoia! I remember reading over a few sites devoted to it once, because I'm a fan of whimsical evil. If I can convince a group near me to check it out, I'll keep that one in mind for the less serious evenings.

And Eleas, can you PM me the stuff on T10? Even if it's not done, I might be able to adapt the ideas into other systems. Thanks for the link to WitchCraft, but I'm not really interested in that kind of dark, film-noirish fantasy setting. I'm after high fantasy, similar to D&D or LOTR in setting.

I'm going to go check out Mage now. Thanks!

In the interest of contributing something on-topic to this thread, I'd like to mention Atlas Games' Feng Shui RPG if you're looking for a system that is dice-lite but not completely subjective. All you need are 6-sided dice. Style and action are emphasized, with rules designed to simulate 'Action Movie Reality' that include die-roll penalties for being boring and bonuses for being interesting. The core book expends a lot of pagecount on the House Setting, but the House Setting is a hodgepodge of fantasy, sci fi, pseudo-realistic historical, and gritty contemporary, so you can probably find an analogue for what you're trying to do in it to mine for examples to use in your own setting. It does, however, assume a focus on action, with the social aspect of roleplaying left diceless, so if you're looking for a system that arbitrates that look elsewhere. For a game with lots and lots of fighting that runs fast and is wicked easy to learn, Feng Shui all the way.

Someone already mentioned Witchcraft, and I support the claim that the Unisystem is a damned fine system. If modern day fantasy isn't your thing, there's All Flesh Must Be Eaten. Same system, uses a modular system to make zombies and deadworlds to play in. There's also Terra Primate if you want to run something like Congo or Planet of the Apes and they're supposed to be releasing a ConX unisystem in the near future if you're into X Files/Conspiracy type games. There's also Paranoia and everyone but Commie Mutant Traitors loves Paranoia. Don't you agree?

The original ConX kicks the SHIT out of the Unisystem.

Beautifully simple custom mechanics. To be quite honest, its the best damn custom system I've ever seen.

Raw Shark wrote:

LongVin wrote:Tell me about it. In a Mage game we vsed Werewolves the only way we won was by basically chopping the thing to bits with axes and swords after it absorbed tons of small arms fire and a grenade hit.

After that since my mage had prime I always "Primed up" my bullets so they were able to actually hurt the damn things.

Your Magi need to watch a movie once in a while. Unless the wolves jumped them with total surprise it should've gone like:

Player: "I wave my <insert favorite focus> at the tiny-ass .38 revolver, using Matter 2 to change the bullets from lead to silver, then open fire."

GM: Let's see... No soak at all, and Mage For Teh Win!

Well if any of us had matter that would of been a viable solution but we didn't. But the Primed bullets worked just as well.

Badme wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote: The RPG that I'm currently infatuated with, Mage: The Ascension is very minimal on the dice rolls. Five or six sessions in, and I'm the only person who's ever had to roll.

Interesting. I like the idea of a fantasy-oriented game as opposed to, say, superhero or sci-fi. And to respond to Arthur, I prefer a face-to-face game. Online play is fine for FPS and RTS, but I can't act over a text-only game with people I don't know in person.

The great thing about Mage is that it can be as fantasy or sci-fi as you want, depending on what sort of scenario you want to run.

Badme wrote: And Eleas, can you PM me the stuff on T10? Even if it's not done, I might be able to adapt the ideas into other systems. Thanks for the link to WitchCraft, but I'm not really interested in that kind of dark, film-noirish fantasy setting. I'm after high fantasy, similar to D&D or LOTR in setting.

I will do so. Just remember that the translation is in the rough, and it ain't sanctioned. I'm fairly sure I haven't made any copyright violations, though.

LongVin wrote:Well if any of us had matter that would of been a viable solution but we didn't. But the Primed bullets worked just as well.

Yeah, Matter 2 is an oft-overlooked God stat in that game. Take note if you end up playing it, Badme.

Infusing your weaponry with Prime is good if you're planning to use one thing against every Reality Deviant you meet, but it's not exactly the right tool for the right job in this case when you compare a 0-Die Soak to a 4-8 Die Soak.

My point about Werewolf is that even though they are the group that is supposed to physically dominate a fair fight in the setting, they're not nearly as wanked-out in one as some of their fans and detractors think they are. Not to mention that every other group (except mortals) gets more powers that are good for avoiding a fair fight. In the large WoD game that I work at, the Werewolves are kind of everybody's comical bitch; They threaten and posture and attack anybody who comes in the bawn, but if another super seriously wants one gone they are.