StarDestroyer.Net BBS

2000AD wrote:I have HL2, CS:S and BF2 and UT2007 is coming out later this year. Why should i be bothered about Halo 2?

wolveraptor wrote:Because it's a better shooter than any of those?[/threadjack] Allahu Akbar!

Rather than hijack the Vista thread I figured I'd start a new one where we could really get this hashed out properly.

So, what makes Halo 2 better than HL2, CS:S, BF2, and/or UT2K7?

Umm how the fuck is it a better shooter? Halo 2 doesn't have shit on any of those titles. Though we can't really arguing anything because no claims were actually made.

Halo 2 isn't great. But it is good. Some people absolutely love the game, some don't. However, when push comes to shove, I doubt very many people are going to upgrade just to get Halo 2.

I love Halo 2, personally (obviously). Of course, as a fan of the series in general, I can't really objectively cite any real improvements over any other shooters, at least the good ones. As Alyeska said, its a fun game, but its not revolutionary. I don't really think one can convince someone one way or the other on it without actually having them try it for a few levels, unless they really liked/disliked Halo 1, in which case, you should expect a similar experience (either way.)

Edit: Of course, there is the Multi-player, which is superior to any other game I've ever played.

Because in the console wars, XBox had better graphics than PS2. Cause Halo one was the best FPS for said better-looking system and cause it was a party game. And because the 2nd installment is an upgraded, newer version with more maps, weapon changes etc.

Bias. I'll take CS:S, CoD:UO, and the Tribes games over Halo 2. Fuck, you live forever in Halo 2 cause of the shields and it has that annoying semi-follow for easy aim. It also has an easy melee combat system to stroke people's ego's anymore. Bias more than anything.

Well the auto aim will disapear in the PC version.

What makes Halo the best console FPS is quite simple: It's the first one that was actually designed with the controller in mind.

Take, for example, the way you only have two weapons at once. Sure, it makes for a tactical game of weapon choices, trying to find the best combinations to suit the level and opponent, but it also means you don't have to spend ages cycling weapons to get to the one you want, you are only one buttonpress away.

(In fact, I think only Perfect Dark Zero has it bettered in terms of control, though many people don't like it's slow turn rate and lack of a jump command, it emphasises cover and strategy more than whizzing around like chimps on speed. With guns.)

Similarly you don't have to perform any finger gymnastics to switch between and use grenades (or put your gun away).

Whether that means that it is, to you, a "better" FPS than the PC can offer (I have come to dislike playing FPS on the PC, it becomes too much of a point and click affair, where things like your mouse speed matter far too much, and the rates of turn and stability of aim are plain broken, hence things like bunnyhopping)

It is impossible to make a better FPS on a console. You can make a FPS well designed on a console, but it is never better. Just by porting to PC, Halo becomes a better game. Superior control, more flexibility, less agrivation on the 100 commands in one button syndrome.

Vendetta wrote:What makes Halo the best console FPS is quite simple: It's the first one that was actually designed with the controller in mind.

That's a matter of necessity.

Take, for example, the way you only have two weapons at once. Sure, it makes for a tactical game of weapon choices, trying to find the best combinations to suit the level and opponent, but it also means you don't have to spend ages cycling weapons to get to the one you want, you are only one buttonpress away.

Halo is not the only game to do this, nor is the console the only platform.

(In fact, I think only Perfect Dark Zero has it bettered in terms of control, though many people don't like it's slow turn rate and lack of a jump command, it emphasises cover and strategy more than whizzing around like chimps on speed. With guns.)

Well, that's simply a matter of preference. Again, Halo is not the only game to have accomplished this.

Similarly you don't have to perform any finger gymnastics to switch between and use grenades (or put your gun away).

Nor do you on the PC.

Whether that means that it is, to you, a "better" FPS than the PC can offer (I have come to dislike playing FPS on the PC, it becomes too much of a point and click affair, where things like your mouse speed matter far too much, and the rates of turn and stability of aim are plain broken, hence things like bunnyhopping)

The same things matter with KB&M that matter with a controller. The difference is you have better control with a mouse than you do with a controller. Controllers are clumsy....

Xbox fanboys. That's it.

Come on, how many PC gamers saw Halo2 on a friends Xbox and thought 'THIS is the amazing game consolies have been waiting for for years?' And consolies claiming better multi on a console... oh dear.

The only good things I can say about it is that it fixed a lot of the super-bad things about Halo that all the fanboys tried to defend. The pistol, the 'assault rifle', the vehicle control, etc. It still looks like ass and becomes boring quickly. It's only remotely fun on coop, but coop makes EVERYTHING fun. I found the poorly-implemented flying bits an impressive control and camera failure.

Nothing. Halo (either one) is a decent FPS, but nothing spectacular. If it was PC-only, it would be just one of a massive pile of good FPS games spanning years of gaming history. But instead, it was released for the xbox... not only was it the only half-decent console FPS at the time, it was the only strong game for the xbox, period. It gets compared to the pitifully weak console FPS competition, so it gets praised as the best game ever. The console fanboys have to have their FPS to worship, so they pick the not-so-horrible game that happens to be better than the truly awful ones.

halo 2 had potential to be a great FPS on the console, but (IMHO) they fucked that up by putting to much emphasis into the multiplayer and reducing the single player experience.

Koolaidkirby wrote:halo 2 had potential to be a great FPS on the console, but (IMHO) they fucked that up by putting to much emphasis into the multiplayer and reducing the single player experience.

This seems to be the road games are going on the pc too. Shooters you could finish in less than 6 hours with an incredible list of online features. Some games even go all the way, such as the battlefield series.

In response to Halo games on the pc, there is no real reason to play them instead of the load of better games out there. They may great on the consoles, but on the pc, they are little more than your average console port.

lPeregrine wrote: But instead, it was released for the xbox... not only was it the only half-decent console FPS at the time, it was the only strong game for the xbox, period.

You're saying there were no strong games for the XBox other than the two Halo games?

DPDarkPrimus wrote:

lPeregrine wrote: But instead, it was released for the xbox... not only was it the only half-decent console FPS at the time, it was the only strong game for the xbox, period.

You're saying there were no strong games for the XBox other than the two Halo games?

pretty much. It was really the only game that either didn't suck, or wasn't available on any other platform.

AK_Jedi wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:

lPeregrine wrote: But instead, it was released for the xbox... not only was it the only half-decent console FPS at the time, it was the only strong game for the xbox, period.

You're saying there were no strong games for the XBox other than the two Halo games?

pretty much. It was really the only game that either didn't suck, or wasn't available on any other platform.

...

...

...

Okay, you're a fucking idiot.

Match-making made Halo 2 decent.

To be honest, I can kind of see where he's coming from DP - most of the games that caught my attention on the X-Box are out for PC or PS2. Can you name an Xbox exclusive game (not just exclusive on launch, mind, but available in a reasonable time on any other system, PC/PS2/GC) aside from Halo? Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well. I mean, right now, the only two I can name offhand are DOA and PGR. That's not exactly a stellar library.

Hotfoot wrote:To be honest, I can kind of see where he's coming from DP - most of the games that caught my attention on the X-Box are out for PC or PS2. Can you name an Xbox exclusive game (not just exclusive on launch, mind, but available in a reasonable time on any other system, PC/PS2/GC) aside from Halo? Preferably one that was a big seller, but moderate sellers would do as well. I mean, right now, the only two I can name offhand are DOA and PGR. That's not exactly a stellar library.

I can name quite a few of XBox-only titles, considering my library of XB games is about 2/3s them.

Chronicles of Riddick
Deathrow (launch)
Farcry Instincts
Ninja Gaiden Black
Otogi 1
Otogi 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta (launch)
Phantom Crash

That's just off the top of my head, too.

AK_Jedi's just posting flamebait, Hotfoot, and you'd do best not to side with him.

Are you saying X-Box only as in not on another console, or X-Box only as in not on PC either?

DPDarkPrimus wrote: Chronicles of Riddick

That's on PC. I have it. Unfortunately, I cannot play it, due to my fucking 6600GT card conflict that means I can't play FEAR, Chronicles of Riddick, the original KOTOR, SW: Battlefront- off the top of my head.

Can't wait to get a fucking new computer.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:I can name quite a few of XBox-only titles, considering my library of XB games is about 2/3s them.

Chronicles of Riddick

Uh, escape from Butcher's Bay? Sorry, there's a PC version. You can even download it off of Fileplanet.

Deathrow (launch)

Never heard of it, to be honest.

Farcry Instincts

Essentially a console port of a successful PC game, missing the AI and some graphical touches. Not really exclusive as a result.

Ninja Gaiden Black

Ceded

Otogi 1
Otogi 2

Never heard of them.

Panzer Dragoon Orta (launch)

Moderate cessation, isn't this a rail shooter? Not exactly big bucks.

Phantom Crash

Vaguely recall it, but not much more beyond that.

That's just off the top of my head, too.

Fair enough. Still, it's not exactly a strong case for strong Xbox exclusive titles, of which there are less than a half dozen from what I'm seeing.

AK_Jedi's just posting flamebait, Hotfoot, and you'd do best not to side with him.

Look pal, I'll do what I damn well please, you don't get to lecture me. Flamebait or not, he still has indirectly brought up a valid point - there really aren't very many strong Xbox exclusive titles, and Halo, frankly, doesn't really bring much to the table as far as FPS games go.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of moderately selling titles is nothing to be ashamed of, but when you look at the games of the year, I have this feeling that Xbox titles make up a small number respectively.

Alyeska: If your comment is pointed towards me, I stated in my previous post PC/PS2/GC, so yes, when I say exclusive, I meant entirely exclusive. It's true, if people are PC people, the XBox/PC exclusives will go towards XBox sales, but that's not really my point.

Halo 2 was actually a disappointment in many ways. The graphics improved and the bizarre weapons from Halo were replaced with something a little more rational (that sniper pistol from Halo was the weirdest thing ever, especially in conjunction with the wildly inaccurate rifle), but the story was a let-down.

First and foremost, I had enough of the Flood in the first game, and was not pleased to see them again. Secondly, it was harder to overlook the plot holes in the second game. If there are Flood in so many places around the galaxy which are so easily found and released, why has there not been an outbreak before? And what the fuck was that bullshit with the bomb being dragged onto an Earth defense platform by the enemy? Don't you think these morons would simply detonate the fucking thing on contact with the ship rather than dragging it onboard and then setting a nice long timer on it? And I really didn't like the brutes as a new enemy unit; every previous unit used technology to enhance its performance, while the brutes walked around in loincloths and apparently had such goddamned tough skin that you could empty half a clip into one without killing it.

The game, despite the improved weapons, lost much of the flavour of the original and replaced it with a lot of FPS cliches.

Hotfoot wrote:Alyeska: If your comment is pointed towards me, I stated in my previous post PC/PS2/GC, so yes, when I say exclusive, I meant entirely exclusive. It's true, if people are PC people, the XBox/PC exclusives will go towards XBox sales, but that's not really my point.

Wasn't directed at you. The person above indicated Escape from Butcher bay was not on PC and I was going to correct him.

Well, I like the Halo series, and I can't really explain why. I guess it's a whole lot of little things added together to make a better whole. For example, the aformentioned two weapons only. When I discovered that, I thought "Finally! An FPS that doesn't act like you're a walking armory!". The Marines actually *did* stuff instead of standing around and getting shot by the player. I remember the first time I played the first level in Halo 1, I was slow getting to the cafeteria, and the Marines in there had already killed all the grunts, instead of being slaughtered horribly.

Actually, I think the Marines are what made Halo really fun for me. I've played tons of shooters where you're the one-man army, killing everything in sight. Then comes Halo, and you feel like you're part of a grand cause, saving the human race alongside your fellow man, etc etc.Of course, you did all the important stuff, but who cares? The Marines had (limited) personality too. You (or I, at meast) actually cared when they got shot, and Sgt Johnson, cliched though he may be, was a great character.

Call me a freak, but I don't like the majority of the FPS games out there where shooting people is for the sake of shooting people. Give me some incentive to do it!

Oh yes, and the vehicles. The vehicles were awesome