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Admiral Valdemar wrote:Hong Kong will provide the average user with solutions, or Taiwan. If Wal-Mart or Tesco sell cheap players with HDCP in for under $100, how long do you think it will take some electronics engineer and some tools to come up with a way of cracking such a thing?

Until HDCP really gets out there, we won't know what to expect.

It looks like HDCP has already been broken.

I came across that paper in the same thread and believe I mentioned it. Sure enough, if someone has leaked the keys or, better yet, actually just mathematically worked out how to crack it, then years and millions of dollars in creating this whole thing have just died before it can even be implemented.

HDCP isnt even finished, yes thats right the damn thing is a moving target.

Wonderfull that all those expensive HDCP "complient" TVs probably arent going to work with the final spec

I thought the damn thing was being put into service now for the next generation of HDTV sets? Christ, if anyone can fuck up industry standards, it's the cretins that insist on protecting copyright for audio-visual works. This would never have happened if the ISO had a say and told them to fuck off.

I hope the main framework is the same when it is finished, at least then we've still got a crackable piece of kit out there that won't be replaced anytime soon (even the slowest guy on the street will smell bullshit when yet another new format comes out and start protesting).

I dont think you truely understand the scope of this fucking mess.

There is no such thing as a HDCP "complient" device, the actual physical format of how the data is transmitted is still in a state of flux. I'm talking about the electrical signalling on the individual pins on the wiring.

Thats purely a matter of electronics, in part the actual physical connectors doing the wiring, and no level of firmware patching can get around it.

ggs wrote:There is no such thing as a HDCP "complient" device, the actual physical format of how the data is transmitted is still in a state of flux. I'm talking about the electrical signalling on the individual pins on the wiring.

Interesting. I think that I've seen things advertised at HDCP ccomplient. If the standard does change enough so those things end up not supporting HDCP in the final version, I wonder if there could be class action lawsuits against the major manfactuers.

I forsee a massive clusterfuck on the horizon as all this pretty DRM technology flies in the face of consumers and people realize what a total fucking they are getting.

The other HDCP thread talked about there maybe being a stripping device. I found an interesting article on that could fit in either thread, but I decided to put it here to avoid necromancy.

Here is an article that has some more info on that. This is new to me, but iI only recently started following this, so it might be something the rest of you have already talked about

Based on this article, it would appear that each device gets a key at the factory, and that it's possible to revoke those keys. The article raises the interesting idea of what would happen if someone took the key from a legit device and used the key a bad device (like a stripper). Would The Powers That Be revoke the key? If so, what happens to all the innocent people who bought the legitiment device?

The impression I've gotten is that keys can't be changed after a device has been released. What happens the first time someone's $5000 plasma TV is whacked because an employee at the manufactuer released the key into the wild?

I second the notion that this is going to be a major clusterfuck.

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Edit: I just realized that the article I mentioned is linked to from Wiki, so you've all probably read it already. Sorry. But anyway, I think that the question about what happens when a legit key is leaked is still interesting enough to bring up.

But its all for a good cause - movies and television shows are unprofitable at the moment, so drastic measures are required to maintain control of copyrighted material.

Honest.

Alyeska wrote:I forsee a massive clusterfuck on the horizon as all this pretty DRM technology flies in the face of consumers and people realize what a total fucking they are getting.

Wait till they try to revoke the decoding keys for some massively popular chuck of hardware. That will be a massive clusterfuck

Even if HDCP is replaced, post-clusterfuck, there is still a chance that the new technology will be broken as well. And the next one after that; repeat ad infinitum.

I can't wait to see the end decision on the side of the HDCP supporters...

ggs wrote: Wait till they try to revoke the decoding keys for some massively popular chuck of hardware. That will be a massive clusterfuck

That depends on the final version of the system. From what I've read at Ars Technica and elsewhere, the likes of Sony or Philips can have a piece of hardware out there and have a single key that works with multiple thousands of devices, so, if one key is revoked there, you suddenly have a load of very pissed off global consumers. But, there is talk that the key system may be such that only a few dozen devices share a single key, so if one is revoked, it actually isn't as big a deal (sucks to be the people who can't use their couple of grands worth of kit though), not nearly big enough a deal to ruin the other thousands of units being sold anyway.

If this is how it's going and how the hardware companies are thinking along with the destitute media companies who so desperately need dosh, then I have to worry about the future of entertainment. For the sake of an arbitrary abstract concept known as copyright, we could see everything from telly to computing ruined because of these numbskulls, even if HDCP dies, it'll be a fine mess to sort out again.

BloodAngel wrote:Even if HDCP is replaced, post-clusterfuck, there is still a chance that the new technology will be broken as well. And the next one after that; repeat ad infinitum.

I can't wait to see the end decision on the side of the HDCP supporters...

"If you can see it, you can pirate it". The only way to have a perfect copyprotection scheme is to simply not show anything to the public. I can't help but think that might ruin sales though.

Who is liable, financially, if a key is revoked - after all, if my TV suddenly won't stream HDCP data, who would I sue? the HDCP consortium, the equipment manufacturer? after all, the equipment is now not fit for its intended purpose - falling foul of the Sale of Goods act, possibly?