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Posted: **2006-05-03 07:28pm**

Breaking: ESRB Changes Oblivion's Rating to "M"

Perhaps learning from the debacle that was the "Hot Coffee" scandal, the ESRB today changed the rating on The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion from Teen to Mature. Depictions of blood and gore and a third-party nude "skin" mod were cited as the major reasons.

The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has just sent word that the rating assigned to Bethesda's and 2K Games' The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has been changed from T (Teen 13+) to M (Mature 17+). "The content causing the ESRB to change the rating involves more detailed depictions of blood and gore than were considered in the original rating, as well as the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allows the user to play with topless versions of female characters," said the ESRB in a release.

"In line with its mission to inform consumers about the age-suitability and content of computer and video games, this ESRB Parent Advisory has been issued to ensure that parents who have purchased this game are immediately notified of the rating change," the release continued. "Parents should also know that a patch for the PC version of the game that disables access to the file with the topless skin will be made available shortly. It will be posted in the near future at http://www.elderscrolls.com/. If parents have questions or concerns about the change in rating, they should contact their retailer."

"Parents across the country depend on ESRB ratings every day to make sensible choices about the games they bring home for their families," said ESRB president Patricia Vance. "Rating changes are extraordinarily rare, but if ever one does occur, ESRB recognizes that parents must be made aware of the change as quickly as possible so they are certain to have the most current and accurate information."

The locked out content is not accessible in the Xbox 360 version; however, the PC version will carry an additional content descriptor for Nudity until it can be re-mastered and released with the topless skin removed. It was, of course, a third-party modification that eventually led to the whole "Hot Coffee" scandal in GTA: San Andreas because it unlocked a mini sex game. Unlike this "skin" mod, though, the "Hot Coffee" mod didn't alter the game; it merely unlocked hidden content.

The ESRB further warned, "It is increasingly important for parents to realize that PC games can be altered through the use of downloadable programs created by other players called 'mods' (short for modification), which are broadly available on the Internet and can change the content of a game. Since players create them, it is impossible for ESRB or any rating service to consider them in assigning a rating. However, some mods can alter a game in ways that may not be appropriate for younger players and may be inconsistent with the ESRB rating, so parents should be aware of their existence and, as always, do their best to monitor their child's gameplay."

by James Brightman

Comments or questions? Send them to editor@gamedaily.com

linky

If this goes somewhere else, please move it.

Posted: **2006-05-03 07:37pm**

Good for the ESRB. They remain the most comprehensive and consistant ratings organization.

Posted: **2006-05-03 07:55pm**

why is there a topless version of the female models in the first place?

Posted: **2006-05-03 08:00pm**

Lord Revan wrote:why is there a topless version of the female models in the first place?

For the European market, Boobies are the evil here in America, but umm... embraced over there.

There are a few dozen games out there which have diffrent coding for American and European audiences related to how explicite they are.

Posted: **2006-05-03 08:12pm**

Mr Bean wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:why is there a topless version of the female models in the first place?
For the European market, Boobies are the evil here in America, but umm... embraced over there.

still don't see a good reason to put them in there unless it serves the plot (assuming there is one).

Posted: **2006-05-03 08:20pm**

Probably because armors use the model as a baseline and using the fugly bra version would look bad with some armors that show skin on the side and back (for example, I think Savior's Hide has slits on the side where the bra line would be). Probably they wanted to help out modding teams with making more revealing armor. Possibly there would be clipping issues with the bra version as well with some of the more tight fitting armors.

Their only mistake about it was making it "realistic", with nipples and all, altough having a nippleless version wouldn't have helped much since texture mods were available from almost day one, unlike model-mods that are becoming common about now (for instance, a proper, quality full nudity mod was released only a couple of days ago because until now there was a problem with the pelvis model since the rags they call panties were incorporated in the model).

It is stupid in the end to penalise them for it. Even if they haven't included it a nude version would be one of the first mods out there almost certanly. So the kids didn't have to wait a couple of days for teh eviiil nipples, wow that would have made things soo much diffrent.

If they wanted to use the mod rationale, they should have used it when the game was originaly being classified, since it was obvious (hell, more then one topic about it existed at the official forum before release) that a nude mod would be released fairly quickly after release.

I'm annoyed at such prudishness by the rating organisations. Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy in the US) was recently censored for the US marked because of sex scenes that could be seen in almost any action flick. Dreamfall's lead developer recently declared that he would have preffered to have tasteful nudity in some of the scenes in the game where it was appropriate and logical, however it wasn't included because of fears of what it would do to the game's rating. As he correctly points out, (paraphrasing) "you can kill things in horrible violent blood splattering ways and at worst you'll get an M rating, while if you even hint at sexuality or even non-sexual nudity and you are lucky if you get M".

Posted: **2006-05-03 08:31pm**

WoW must use a different system as it has armor clash with the underwear the models have and it's 12+ here and I've never of it being considered to have higher in any western country.

Posted: **2006-05-03 08:35pm**

It seems to me that the decision was primarily because of mods, correct? I mean, it's kind of hard to miss the blood and gore stuff if you actually do some of the sidequests. Actually, there is a zombie in the imperial city underground that you encounter in the first little bit, so they should have noticed that. So did they change the rating of the console version as well? After all, you can't download mods for it!

Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **2006-05-03 09:12pm**

Yeah, armour skins usually just include 'skin' as part of the armour.

Changing the rating due to mods is lame. Why can't there be a 'experience may change if YOU INSTALL THE TITTIE BOOBAGE MOD' sticker?

Posted: **2006-05-03 09:23pm**

It's more than just mods. Once again, the naked boobies were actually included in the game. the textures are there for anyone to see, without having to download anything. Since you don't NEED to download something to see naked boobies, the content is in the game itself, and thus, like Hot Coffee, ESRB has to change the rating appropriately.

Once the game is remastered, it will no longer have the naked booby textures, and will be reduced in rating.

Of course if people actually, you know, READ the article rather than kneejerking the headline, this post wouldn't even be needed.

Posted: **2006-05-03 09:24pm**

Why can't there be a 'experience may change if YOU INSTALL THE TITTIE BOOBAGE MOD' sticker?

Is there an ulterior motive to this request?

Anyway if the mod unlocks content already in the game, then I guess too bad. Better not include topless skins. Intent does kind of matter, they should make sure it's not there. Though I agree nudity isn't deserving of M rating, at least they're consistent.

Brian

Posted: **2006-05-03 09:50pm**

Hotfoot wrote:It's more than just mods. Once again, the naked boobies were actually included in the game. the textures are there for anyone to see, without having to download anything. Since you don't NEED to download something to see naked boobies, the content is in the game itself, and thus, like Hot Coffee, ESRB has to change the rating appropriately.

Once the game is remastered, it will no longer have the naked booby textures, and will be reduced in rating.

Of course if people actually, you know, READ the article rather than kneejerking the headline, this post wouldn't even be needed.

Yeah, because it's in the texture files where anyone can just.. wait.

And the article doesn't state the issue is viewing the art with mods... wait.

Article wrote:the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game

Oh noes, the article says the issue is mods that use textures present - NOT that you can poke around in the texture files and see a stretched-flat tit skin. Who didn't read the article now, fuckhole?

Posted: **2006-05-03 10:10pm**

Stark wrote:Yeah, because it's in the texture files where anyone can just.. wait.

Actually, yes, anyone can just view the texture files that are supplied with the game. Not everyone is going to, but anyone who WANTS to can do so easily. This has already been stated to be a no-no by the ERSB thanks to Hot Coffee, so this shouldn't be a surprise for anyone.

And the article doesn't state the issue is viewing the art with mods... wait.
Article wrote:the presence of a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game
Oh noes, the article says the issue is mods that use textures present - NOT that you can poke around in the texture files and see a stretched-flat tit skin. Who didn't read the article now, fuckhole?

You're being asinine and not even that clear. The content was included in the files installed on to the computer. It was then revealed, easily, I should add, by a third-party, within a WEEK of the game's release (days, actually). Your original post bemoaned that this was all the work of third-party content. This is false, the content was included with the game, as I pointed out.

As I said, you don't NEED to download something to see the naked boobies, unless you somehow think that the mod was created out of the combined will of THE INTARWEB and required nobody, you know, actually making it in the first place. Given how quickly the mod cropped up and how many alternate versions exists, it stands to reason that anyone with the intelligence to actually unlock the data on their own can do it with relative ease. Also, given the ease of modding Oblivion, it, again, is not that hard to do without having to download a naughty mod (OMG).

Just accept the fact that some twelve year old could see boobies in game without having any data from the internet than official game material. The fact that boobies warrent an "M" rating is retarded, but it's consistant for the ESRB to pass down this judgement in light of Hot Coffee.

Posted: **2006-05-03 10:46pm**

Fuck OFF. Your 'lolz read teh articel fagzor' post is utter bullshit, since the article fucking says it's third party mods that are the issue. It even states that the mods CHANGE THE GAME instead of simply UNLOCKING SHIT the way Hot Coffee did, so your attempts to equate them are garbage.

Sure, it's in the textures, that's bad, I agree it's both stupid and unacceptable. However, if you try and pull some 'lolz illiterate' bullshit on me, you better be sure the article doesn't make you look fucking stupid. Better luck next time?

EDIT - Your attempts to equate them are not garage.

Posted: **2006-05-03 11:01pm**

I love it how third-party modders can now change a game's ESRB rating classification.

Did they rate Sims M? Because that shipped with nude skins as well, they even get used when the Sims go to the bathroom.

Posted: **2006-05-03 11:10pm**

What's REALLY stupid is that a game developer would ship a game with content like this AT ALL after the whole Hot Coffee hoedown. Clearly, people find it unacceptable to have this shit in the data at all, regardless of how difficult it is to get at. You think they'd have learnt. Learned? Bah.

Posted: **2006-05-03 11:11pm**

Nude sims have all the definition of a barbie doll. The blurring is just for effect.

Posted: **2006-05-04 12:10am**

SAMAS wrote:Nude sims have all the definition of a barbie doll. The blurring is just for effect.

Are you calling Jack Thompson a liar?!

Posted: **2006-05-04 12:11am**

SAMAS wrote:Nude sims have all the definition of a barbie doll. The blurring is just for effect.

Not if ya get the custom skins!

Posted: **2006-05-04 02:35am**

Stark wrote:Fuck OFF. Your 'lolz read teh articel fagzor' post is utter bullshit, since the article fucking says it's third party mods that are the issue. It even states that the mods CHANGE THE GAME instead of simply UNLOCKING SHIT the way Hot Coffee did, so your attempts to equate them are garbage.

Ahem, this is bullshit. Your reading comprehension is horrible. They are saying that the ESRB can't make ratings for mods, because they are made by third parties, and thus parents should be aware of the existance of mods that add content to games that otherwise wouldn't be there (like the nude mods to the Sims). The nude skins used in those mods are 100% user-created, and thus NOT THE FAULT OF THE COMPANY.

When the skins for nudity are included BY THE COMPANY, then the company is responsible. Just like Hot Coffee, where the skins and the minigame were included BY THE COMPANY, this is Bethesda's fault, and frankly, after Hot Coffee, they should have been on their toes.

Sure, it's in the textures, that's bad, I agree it's both stupid and unacceptable. However, if you try and pull some 'lolz illiterate' bullshit on me, you better be sure the article doesn't make you look fucking stupid. Better luck next time?

EDIT - Your attempts to equate them are not garage.

Nor are they garbage. But hey, keep trying.

Posted: **2006-05-04 03:11am**

Lord Revan wrote:why is there a topless version of the female models in the first place?

I believe there was nudity in the first two Elder Scrolls games. You could, if I remember correctly, remove the armor of your character and see them nude in the character portrait. I believe there were visible nipples, but no genitals. There were also male and female humanoid monsters who were naked. So anyway, maybe Bethesda was briefly considering a return to their roots.

And if you're wondering why I remember so much about nudity in the Elder Scrolls, well I was young when I first played it. I guess it made an impression...

Posted: **2006-05-04 03:19am**

But the rationale that anything in the content, exposed or not, is fair game for the rating is retarded. Bethseda made an elegant system that handles the variation in color among the varius races in the game nicely and also helps out modders in making armor by using a logical model where you apply armor to the base character model (or rather, allow parts of the character model to be seen, but anyways). In order to facilitate that, they made a nude upper female body since the bra version wouldn't work very well with a lot of armors. Quite logically, they made the nude top part realistic - in a game that is on the cutting edge of realistic-looking 3d characters. And, also quite logically in this climate, they made damn sure that it was not exposed in the game without modding it.

According to this twisted logic, they were supposed to ignore their artistic vision of the game (realism) and instead made mutant nippleless females, as if that would have changed anything.

This is exactly the kind of oppressive prudishness that forces companies to selfcensor their games and compromise their artistic vision (as mentioned earlier). It is especialy annoying in cases such as this, where such content is inteligently used behind the scenes in an integral system of the game.

I would, however, support some sort of bigass warning on the box in cases of games like Oblivion that states that mods may add or enable content which would change the rating. At least then the stupid rationale of idiot parents that think seeing a nipple scarred little Johnny for life could be ignored because they are illiterate idiots.

EDIT: And, of course, if a publisher doesn't display that warning and a mod comes out that enables questionable content available on the disc, he deserves to be trown to the lions.

Posted: **2006-05-04 03:26am**

Cej4096 wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:why is there a topless version of the female models in the first place?
I believe there was nudity in the first two Elder Scrolls games. You could, if I remember correctly, remove the armor of your character and see them nude in the character portrait. I believe there were visible nipples, but no genitals. There were also male and female humanoid monsters who were naked. So anyway, maybe Bethesda was briefly considering a return to their roots.

And if you're wondering why I remember so much about nudity in the Elder Scrolls, well I was young when I first played it. I guess it made an impression...

Yes, there was, and no, Bethseda never intended to go back to those roots altough it seems that their artists didn't have much of an attitude change over the years. Of course, the nipples were there back in the days when there were no ratings or they were lacklusterly enforced. These days companies stay away from nude/sexual content like the plague because of them.

I think one of the big reasons for nude models for Morrowind and Oblivion among veteran players and modders is exactly because earlier games of the series had them and Bethseda removing them (or more accuratly covering them up in the worst rags that ever immitated underware) annoys them as it is seen as a compromise in the artistic vision of the game.

Posted: **2006-05-04 12:02pm**

The ESRB should just take a fucking stand and leave the rating at T.

I very much suspect that the BBFC 15 certificate would have been changed by having the female characters topless, after all.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Oblivion Now Rated "M"

Oblivion Now Rated "M"