StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I looked through the more recent threads here but nothing really had what I was looking for, so, any help here would be appreciated. I'm planning on replacing and possibly partially cannibalizing my current desktop, as it has simply reached that point where upgrading meaningfully would essentially mean replacing everything but the case. This will occur within the next 3-4 months, though I'm not sure yet whether I want to build it myself or get it prebuilt (and yes, I aware of the advantages of the former, please do not tell me as it does not help me), nor am I up-to-date on the latest and greatest in hardware, firmware, and other vitals.

So my questions are thus:

• If I go with a prebuilt system, what is a good company to order from? Preferably gaming-oriented. (In the US)
• I prefer nVidia and Intel, what are good, high-level products in 3-4 months, without being super-bleeding edge? Ones that will be compatible with / support / utilize all this new groovy future stuff like SLI or dual cores or whatnot?
• Vista - what's the deal? Should I wait for it? Should I hold onto XP as long as possible? Or something in between?
• I hear bad things about physics cards - worth investing in at this point?
• Not nearly as important, but if anyone knows off the top of their head, what's a solid Soundblaster (though other brands, if applicable, are fine as long as they play nice with Creative speakers) 5.1 card? Yes, I do care about my sound card, but I don't need bleeding edge here either.
• Monitors... I must have CRT. They go well with my diehard refusal to use wireless. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance for any help, and for not telling me how awesome Macs / Linux / AMD / LCDs / or whatever is.

You don't have to worry about upgrading to Vista for at least a year or two.

Physics cards are a waste of money. Don't bother.

What are you looking to spend?

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:So my questions are thus:

• If I go with a prebuilt system, what is a good company to order from? Preferably gaming-oriented. (In the US)
• I prefer nVidia and Intel, what are good, high-level products in 3-4 months, without being super-bleeding edge? Ones that will be compatible with / support / utilize all this new groovy future stuff like SLI or dual cores or whatnot?

The Core 2 Duo is pretty much the CPU, especially if you can score a 6600 or above. Any nVidia card will be okay, but I would recommend getting a higher end card and then allowing for later expansion through your SLI slot when you need it and when the price comes down, rather than getting two lower-end cards for a comparable price. The former offers much easier and cost-effective upgradability while providing great performance.

[*]Vista - what's the deal? Should I wait for it? Should I hold onto XP as long as possible? Or something in between?

It depends on what you're working on, but many people will choose to wait on Vista for at least a few months after it is released. If you need a new system now, then there's no point in worrying over it, IMO.

[*]I hear bad things about physics cards - worth investing in at this point?

Probably not. The only physics card I know of is fairly pricey and is not supported by most current games, although IMO the technology has strong upside.

Why must you burden your poor desk with an ancient CRT? Why do you cling to the past?

although IMO the technology has strong upside.

Though it will be out of date with the next gen of graphics cards, which I believe are bringing out physics processing and API's integrated on the graphics card.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote: So my questions are thus:

• If I go with a prebuilt system, what is a good company to order from? Preferably gaming-oriented. (In the US)

iBuyPower.com I'd recommend for high performance for low cost. Great stuff can be purchased there. Otherwise, just buy a refurbished system and upgrade it.

I'd recommend Apple if you have a higher budget and don't mind a non-upgradeable system, or can afford a Mac Pro (which is basicly the most powerful thing known to man). But seeing as you're an upgrader and on a budget you probably don't want it. Just had to bring it up, since the new ones can boot Windows and use Intel and NVidia...

[*]I prefer nVidia and Intel, what are good, high-level products in 3-4 months, without being super-bleeding edge? Ones that will be compatible with / support / utilize all this new groovy future stuff like SLI or dual cores or whatnot?

Core 2 Duo. I cannot say it enough. Core 2 Duo. It's 64-bit and dual core- even if you just get the cheapest one (dual 1.86) it outperforms 90% of processors on the market (the dual 2 GHz one outperforms the fastest Athlon 64) and you can always upgrade to a dual 3.0 at any time and nearly double your power. And when quad-core Kentsfeild and Cloverton chips come out at the end of the year, pop one of those in.

64-bit means it's future-proof for a while, and dual core means it can take advantage of more and more multithreaded apps that are coming.

[*]Vista - what's the deal? Should I wait for it? Should I hold onto XP as long as possible? Or something in between?

Don't bother. The only full featured version is the Ultimate ($400)- the Home Basic ($200) doesn't even have Aero or DVD burning software or remote desktop or a dozen other things.

[*]I hear bad things about physics cards - worth investing in at this point?

There's simply not enough support. Very few commercial games use them, and the few that do use it just for extra eye candy with no effect on the gameplay. There's not enough users for anyone to make a game that depends on the physics card, and thus none do.

Thanks. I'd like to spend less than $2000 for sure, but how much exactly I'm not yet sure. I want to see what the good stuff is, then pick and choose if necessary to get the cost down by removing or downgrading what I can live without (I'm perfectly familiar with today's low-end and mid-range stuff).

I'll definitely stick with XP now, thanks for the pointers.

As for CRTs - I guess I'm just old skool. Unless you can convince me how totally awesome LCDs or whatever are, and demonstrate that there is absolutely no disadvantage to them over CRTs, including cost, then I might get with the times. That extends to ATI, AMD, etc. if applicable, I didn't mean to sound too harsh in the OP, I just get tired of seeing people post what are effectively useless blurbs about how the user should use x, y, or z because it's soooooooooooooooo much cooler than what the user is looking for help with.

InnocentBystander wrote:Why must you burden your poor desk with an ancient CRT? Why do you cling to the past?

1) It's pretty nice having all resolutions look nice, not just the sometimes viciously high native resolution.

2) $$$

3) Not having to worry about shit like color banding and input lag is really k-rad in my book.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Monitors... I must have CRT. They go well with my diehard refusal to use wireless. Razz Any recommendations?

My friend pointed me towards a refurbished Dell P1110 on sale at Fry's a couple of years ago... a 21" CRT for only ~$200. Check Craigslist, if there's a Fry's near you check there, check eBay for ones on sale that you can A) plug in and have a look at (or better yet, arrange with the dude to have it turned on a bit before you get there so it's had a chance to warm up) and B) pick up yourself so that UPS is not shoving a fist up your ass for shipping an 80-pound monitor. If you're near a decently populated area (Portland's a pretty modestly-sized city and I could find one easy) you should be able to track down a used 21" CRT that's still in good condition.

Example - See, this was posted just today. People are unloading these babies for dirt cheap - now is a great time to be someone who still doesn't mind having a 21" CRT.

EDIT: EXAMPLE 2 - Even better, a 22" CRT for a mere $120.

Praxis wrote:64-bit means it's future-proof for a while

could you go into detail on this please

As for CRTs - I guess I'm just old skool. Unless you can convince me how totally awesome LCDs or whatever are, and demonstrate that there is absolutely no disadvantage to them over CRTs, including cost, then I might get with the times.

Most people say that they can see a difference in picture quality between CRTs and LCDs, personally I have never been able to tell a difference.

As for price, it rerally depends on where you buy, at my work they cheapest LCD is about $60AUD more expensive than the CRT's we sell.

The main benefit I see for LCDs is space and power consumption savings.

[quote="Uraniun235

Praxis wrote:64-bit means it's future-proof for a while

could you go into detail on this please[/quote]

We're now rapidly going into a stage where apps are going to start using 64-bit for all kinds of things, nothing major yet. Like dual core, this is something nice to have, and theres no reason not to get a 64-bit CPU.

Not that its even possible for a gamer nowdays to get a 32-bit CPU, both AMD and Intel modern lines are fully 64-bit.

atg wrote:Most people say that they can see a difference in picture quality between CRTs and LCDs, personally I have never been able to tell a difference.

The only time I've been able to tell if is a truly shitball LCD.

And to the original post:

# If I go with a prebuilt system, what is a good company to order from? Preferably gaming-oriented. (In the US)

I've heard good things about VelocityMicro.com. They're a bit more expensive than some other prebuilts, but from what I've seen and heard, they do go work.

# I prefer nVidia and Intel, what are good, high-level products in 3-4 months, without being super-bleeding edge? Ones that will be compatible with / support / utilize all this new groovy future stuff like SLI or dual cores or whatnot?

Core 2 Duo for the CPU (preferably an E6600 or E6700). For motherboards, ones based on the the Nvidia 590 chipset for Intel should start appearing this month. The Asus and DFI boards look very good (and I'll probably snag one of those to myself). For video cards, if your looking 3-4 months down the road, the Nvidia G80 GPU should be out by then. If not, one of the 7950s (GX2 or GT2) should suffice, or even 7900GTX since they've fallen in price. These are all high end parts.

# Vista - what's the deal? Should I wait for it? Should I hold onto XP as long as possible? Or something in between?

Anything built now will run Vista. Switch when you feel the time is right. Personally, I want to see how Crysis and UT2K7 run on DX10, and if any major bugs in the OS pop up in the first couple of months, then I plan on switching.

# I hear bad things about physics cards - worth investing in at this point?

Right now I wouldn't bother. Maybe this time next year there will be enough titles that take proper advantage of one to make the purchase worth while. Also, ATI seems to have a hard-on for using GPUs to do physics, but one developer (Epic?) has already said they consider GPU-based physics to be a gimick that has no gameplay value. Wait-and-see is the approach to take here.

# Not nearly as important, but if anyone knows off the top of their head, what's a solid Soundblaster (though other brands, if applicable, are fine as long as they play nice with Creative speakers) 5.1 card? Yes, I do care about my sound card, but I don't need bleeding edge here either.

X-Fi ExtremeMusic. Best sound card I've ever owned, and doesn't come with all the useless crap of the other X-Fi models.

Thanks for the help everyone. Also, if I go with SLI with the future in mind, what kind of wattage should I look at for a PSU?

Wattage is not as important as some PSU manufacturers wish you thought it was.

The two most important things to look for in a power supply:

1) Reputable brand name.

Enermax, Seasonic, Fortron, Tagan, PC Power and Cooling... these are all highly reputable PSU brands. Theirs are usually among the most reliable you can get.

2) Sufficient 12v amperage

Determine how much amperage your system will require at 12 volts and make sure any PSU you get is able to meet this demand.

We can typically assume about 1A for fans and motherboard.
1A per optical drive.
2A per hard drive.

xbitlabs.com is usually a good resource for finding specs on power draw for processors and vid cards. Sometimes they go into detail on how much power is being drawn at the various voltages, and sometimes they just throw up "this component draws 60 watts at peak load"... in the latter case you can divide wattage by 12 (volts) to get a safe reckoning of how many amps you'll need to budget for.

Using how many amps at 12V your system is likely to draw (plus a 10% safety margin), you can then use this figure to determine how big a power supply you need.