StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2006-09-05 04:45am**

It's arrived, see last post.
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How's this? https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wi ... w+Computer

Recycling 450watt Antec PSU from my current desktop, SBLive value and scsi card, and a CDRW, as well as my 1280x1024 Samsung CRT

Should I go for a 6600 instead? Howm uch difference does the extra 2MB in cache do? I might overclock as well

Can I go w/ slower RAM, does it really make a difference?

Should I go for the P5NSLI instead for future upgradability, and forgo the overclockability?

I really do need the 2GB, heavy multitasker, plus I run quite a few bloated software (eg, mono apps, java apps). Will be using this machine for development w/ Eclipse on Linux, some 3d modeling w/ Blender, and gaming (Needs to run Supreme Commander)

Posted: **2006-09-05 06:42am**

Doesn't look bad at all. You should definitely go with the high speed memory, because that's going to become more and more common. The biggest bottleneck bus speed wise is going to be the graphics card, because it's going to have the slowest bus speed of them all.

I can't really comment on the E6400 vs E6600 in application performance and whether or not the E6400 would be enough for you. Both are good processors. This thread has links to several reviews and comparisons.

For the motherboard, I suggest you make sure that the board is passively cooled instead of having a chipset fan. Less noise, lasts longer and according to Ace Pace Asus boards have been having serious problems with the fans breaking in just a few months. The P5B Deluxe WiFi is passively cooled but it costs almost $100 more than the basic P5B. I suggest the Abit AB9 Pro instead. It's $159 and looks much better than the basic P5B when you compare the specs.

I know exactly zilch about SLI setups and overclocking, so I can't help you there. I've never had enough spare cash to even consider risking any damage to my processors.

Edi

Posted: **2006-09-05 08:44am**

For overclocking, esspecially Intel processors, look for mobos with the 8pin CPU connector rather then 4, also, look at the power circutry around the CPU, I've seen reviews where 8 or even 4 phase power is quite alot more stable then 3 phase.

Note: I have no idea how it works, I just see the results.

Posted: **2006-09-05 11:01am**

What about the DFI Infinity 975X ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813136168

Not really sure if SLI is really worth getting as an upgrade path...

I don't see any fans on the P5B, looks like passive heat sinks o_O...

Still wondering if I should go for cheaper memory.

I might overclock just a little, nothing too risky, and if I spend 100$ more on parts to facilitate this I might as well go w/ a faster proc to start w/

Posted: **2006-09-05 11:03am**

SLI..stay away unless you have a need to really OC, as all the best OC boards are either Crossfire or SLI.

Again, OC centric, DFI boards the best overclockers in the world, period, however, they are extreamly complex. VERY complex. I'm not so sure about the Infinity boards, but be careful.

But they're good boards.

Posted: **2006-09-05 11:38am**

What's wrong w/ SLI capability? The DFI motherboard above is less than 30$ more than the asus. Hate the layout since I'd lose a PCI slot (2 if using SLI) -already plan to use 2

I don't really plan to go w/ SLI right off though, just maybe as an upgrade option.

What about cooling?

Posted: **2006-09-05 11:41am**

Pu-239 wrote:What's wrong w/ SLI capability? The DFI motherboard above is less than 30$ more than the asus. Hate the layout since I'd lose a PCI slot (2 if using SLI) -already plan to use 2

I don't really plan to go w/ SLI right off though, just maybe as an upgrade option.

SLI nowdays is kinda worth more then it was initially, but it stills a suckers bet. Say you buy one current midrange card, and plan to buy another one, by the time you save up another say $150 for the other card, it usually goes out of normal channels. It was worse in 2005, you needed the exact same card, exact revision, exact BIOS.

What about cooling?

Passive is the way to go, but DFI has this really sweet system with some magnetic something fan, dosn't really make noise and works great, of course, check reviews of the motherboard you intend on purchesing. Or look in OC forums for people using the board.

Xtreamsystems might help.

Posted: **2006-09-05 11:52am**

Hrm, the DFI 975X motherboard w/ SLI does seem to be the only motherboard on newegg supporting the core 2 though- I don't like the fact that it only has 2 PCI slots, since I'm already using 2 up right off the bat. For slight overclocking up to 3GHz on a E6400, I should be fine w/ the P5B though and stock cooling right? The p5b does seem to have a good review from Anandtech.

Also, my discrete SBLive (yeah, it's a value) is still better than using the integrated one right? I know it works better under Linux (eg, multiple apps can use the sound device while using OSS), but are there any other reasons to keep it (apps using OSS are dying out anyway, the only things of importance are Audacity and Flash and some games)? Not using any HD audio, just standard 2:1 speakers

Posted: **2006-09-05 12:10pm**

Pu-239 wrote:Hrm, the DFI 975X motherboard w/ SLI does seem to be the only motherboard on newegg supporting the core 2 though- I don't like the fact that it only has 2 PCI slots, since I'm already using 2 up right off the bat. For slight overclocking up to 3GHz on a E6400, I should be fine w/ the P5B though and stock cooling right? The p5b does seem to have a good review from Anandtech.

Also, my discrete SBLive (yeah, it's a value) is still better than using the integrated one right? I know it works better under Linux (eg, multiple apps can use the sound device while using OSS), but are there any other reasons to keep it (apps using OSS are dying out anyway, the only things of importance are Audacity and Flash and some games)?

The P5B looks fine, 3PCI slots as well. I wouldn't be worried about using it. Hell, it looks very sweet for OCing. However, I'd be worried about several things.

ZERO PATA ports. ZERO.

Second, lets quote the ATech review of it.

Despite the similarity of the ASUS 975X and 965 top boards, a closer look at options does tell you 965 is targeted a bit lower than 975. The FSB adjusts to 400 on 965, more than enough on most processors, except Conroe actually can reach 400, 450, and beyond. The 975X has adjustments to 500 FSB. Other subtle differences are the ADI chipset HD audio on 965 and a Dolby Digital Master Studio (Dolby Digital Live) audio choice for the 975X.

Basic Performance

Intel's thinking on the 965 chipset remains a mystery to us. We expected the new 965 might be a bit faster than 975 since Intel tells us the 965 uses a better memory controller. That was not the case, as 965 remained a bit slower than 975X. The missing support for CrossFire is also a mystery. The 965 has an X16 slot and an X4 slot, but it cannot operate in multi-GPU mode for CrossFire. The only Intel option for CrossFire is the 975X.

Another odd puzzle is that the X6800, which is completely unlocked, only operates unlocked DOWN in P965. The stock multiplier of the 2.93 chip is 11x, and you cannot select higher multipliers on P965 as you can on 975X. On the one hand Intel is telling us all that the P965 is a uniquely up-to-date chipset that supports Conroe really well, while on the other hand we discover 965 is crippled in some areas compared to 975X. You will also see the 965 does not support ECC memory while the 975X does, but that will only matter to a small percentage of users.

Perhaps with time the P965 will become a faster, better board than 975, but at this point in time the BIOS implementations are much more immature than 975X BIOS solutions. Based on the costs we have seen for top 965 boards compared to 975, it would take a big price difference to persuade us to buy 965 instead. In general, those wider price differences don't exist in this round of motherboards. Both ASUS boards, the 975X P5W-DH and the P965 P5B Deluxe, are now for sale at the same $269 price. Frankly, at the same price we could never recommend this 965 motherboard over the better performing, better-featured and better-overclocking 975X model.

Beyond this, I don't feel I know enough to reccomend the P5B over the Infinity or vice versa.

Regarding sound, I'd advise listen and decide later. Onboard Intel sound is improving, however, I don't have any experiance with it to say whether it's better then discreet solutions.

Posted: **2006-09-05 12:33pm**

Lack of PATA isn't a problem, since I have a PCI PATA controller (yet another PCI slot used). Eh, the DFI board is only 30$ more. I'll just go w/ that. Will use stock cooling for now, then switch if the sound irritates me enough, or I want to OC more.

Thanks a lot!

EDIT: Wait, since the DFI board only supports DDR667, should I downgrade my RAM?

Posted: **2006-09-05 12:36pm**

Pu-239 wrote:Lack of PATA isn't a problem, since I have a PCI PATA controller (yet another PCI slot used). Eh, the DFI board is only 30$ more. I'll just go w/ that. Will use stock cooling for now, then switch if the sound irritates me enough, or I want to OC more.

Thanks a lot!

Alright, if you decide to OC your DFI board, kindly document, I'd be interested to read, not enough OCers explain the process they take.

Posted: **2006-09-05 01:08pm**

I suggest reading the Abit AB9 Pro reviews over at Anandtech. They were working off of a prerelease BIOS and got fairly good results with it. Current BIOS is v1.3 and it addresses some CAS latency issues and Core 2 Duo hangups that were in the 1.0 BIOS. The results were not spectacular, but decent. That board also has IDE connection, but only has two PCI slots and 1 PCIe x16 and two PCIe X1. It's a good board price/quality wise. But I still don't know enough about overclocking to say anything definite. Just saying that it's worth examining as an option.

Edi

Posted: **2006-09-05 06:42pm**

Swapped 7800GTX w/ 7900GT, I think I'll order tomorrow.

Posted: **2006-09-05 08:02pm**

Actually, might go w/ the asus, since the article quoted was before the release of the new bios. Plus the Asus is safer to reflash (and I can do it from a flash drive (you need Windows for the DFI, and there's a chance of bricking)). I don't intend to SLI anyway.

Posted: **2006-09-06 03:43am**

I think I'll go w/ the deluxe since it does come w/ 8 phase power and builtin wifi, which might be useful for LAN parties and as an backup AP in the house. Plus I need a mike

Posted: **2006-09-06 11:54am**

8 Phase power is stable, but check if it's a 4 or 8 pin for the CPU. If it's 8 and you only have 4, thats fine, but the extra 4 pins are usful for OCing.

Posted: **2006-09-06 07:09pm**

Added a PSU, not sure if it's robust enough.

Posted: **2006-09-06 08:32pm**

You're willing to spend $250 on a MB, but want to cheap out on the PSU. I don't trust that brand. Seasonic S-12s are apparently very good PSUs, and you can get a reasonably high wattage onefor $100 or so.

Posted: **2006-09-06 09:11pm**

Let me throw in a comment about SLI (and Crossfire), since I'm an SLI user. I don't consider it an upgrade path, especially with only 6 months to go to Vista and DX10. SLI is great if your running a high-res display (1600x1200 and higher), but its overkill for lower resolutions. If you want high-res gaming, then get two cards at the same time (or close to the same time, if you have some budget constraints). If you're LCD is 1280x1024, or your using a CRT, don't bother.

Considering the performance jump from the Geforce 6x00 to the 7x00, getting one card now and then another months from now, after the next-gen cards have been released (which will be no later than Vista's ship date) is most likely going to cost you more money for far less performance.

Oh, and get a real PSU. One the recent threads had a list of good brands. I like PC Power and Cooling, but the models Newegg carries are probably out of your price range. You can find a good single video card PSU from them for $100 if you order direct from their site (www.pcpowerandcooling.com). I've also seen Seasonics, Silverstones, and OCZ PSUs get glowing recommendations. Also, make sure you get one with a good, single 12v rail (30+ amps). The one you pick has two 18 amp 12v rails; that could cause some stability problems, especially if you're overclocking.

Posted: **2006-09-06 09:56pm**

SLI is really only worth it if you simply must to have the very best performance that even a single top-line card cannot provide.

I don't consider it an upgrade path, especially with only 6 months to go to Vista and DX10.

Dunno about you, but barring something incredibly drastic, I'm not planning on jumping to Vista any time soon... probably not before I start looking to upgrade my 7800 GT.

Posted: **2006-09-06 10:27pm**

Okay , swapped the PSU, do I need 500W w/ the single 7900GT and all? Should I even go w/ that high end card or should I go w/ a very low end card and upgrade in the future? Gaming isn't exactly a priority at the moment, maybe in a few months (or whenever SupCom is released).

And I do have a 1600x1200 CRT

. Not using it though since the monitor face isn't flat.

Posted: **2006-09-06 10:35pm**

Pu-239 wrote:Okay , swapped the PSU, do I need 500W w/ the single 7900GT and all?

Everything else being peachy-keen, 500W is overkill.

Wattage is not as important as some PSU manufacturers wish you thought it was.

The two most important things to look for in a power supply:

1) Reputable brand name.

Enermax, Seasonic, Fortron, Tagan, PC Power and Cooling... these are all highly reputable PSU brands. Theirs are usually among the most reliable you can get.

2) Sufficient 12v amperage

Determine how much amperage your system will require at 12 volts and make sure any PSU you get is able to meet this demand.

We can typically assume about 1A for fans and motherboard.
1A per optical drive.
2A per hard drive.

xbitlabs.com is usually a good resource for finding specs on power draw for processors and vid cards. Sometimes they go into detail on how much power is being drawn at the various voltages, and sometimes they just throw up "this component draws 60 watts at peak load"... in the latter case you can divide wattage by 12 (volts) to get a rough, yet safe reckoning of how many amps you'll need to budget for.

Using how many amps at 12V your system is likely to draw (plus a 10% safety margin), you can then use this figure to determine how big a power supply you need.

Posted: **2006-09-06 11:35pm**

Hrm,

Xbitlabs says the Geforce 7900GT uses 49 watts at peak, so 60 to be safe,

Max E6400 power consumption seems to be 40, but I'll just go w/ 100 to be safe.

Say 4 hard drives maximum (unlikely, I'll probably stick them in my fileserver), that'd be 24watts*4 is another 100 watts

2 opticals are 24 watts

2, maybe 3 fans and a mobo at 1 amp each, would be 48 watts

48+24+100+60 = 232watts = 19.3amps @ 12v . The PSUs seem to have a v1 rail and a v2 rail- the one beowulf showed has ratings for 14 and 15 and the enermax there currently has 22 for v1 and v2 - do I add the two?

Posted: **2006-09-07 06:55am**

Uraniun235 wrote:Dunno about you, but barring something incredibly drastic, I'm not planning on jumping to Vista any time soon... probably not before I start looking to upgrade my 7800 GT.

I plan on giving it a couple of months to see if any major bugs come out. I'm looking forward to a new interface and DX10, especially since Crysis and possibly UT2K7 will have DX10 out of the box. From what I understand, the OEM pricing will be pretty decent, and I can pick up an HD for it and dual boot with XP as a backup option.

Posted: **2006-09-07 09:17am**

Arrow wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:Dunno about you, but barring something incredibly drastic, I'm not planning on jumping to Vista any time soon... probably not before I start looking to upgrade my 7800 GT.
I plan on giving it a couple of months to see if any major bugs come out. I'm looking forward to a new interface and DX10, especially since Crysis and possibly UT2K7 will have DX10 out of the box. From what I understand, the OEM pricing will be pretty decent, and I can pick up an HD for it and dual boot with XP as a backup option.

Source for UT2K7 having DX10 out of the box? I've heard about PHYSX support, but not DX.

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New PC check(update 2 w/ pics)

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