Jedi Knight vs. Master

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2004-04-05 02:30am

What is the difference between a Jedi Knight and a Jedi Master? Or, what was Obi-Wan in AOTC? In the EU and even the novelizations, there is a distinction in rank between Knights and Masters. (Qui-Gon is specifically referred to as a Jedi Master.) But in the actual movies, no distinction is made. Obi-Wan is given the rank of Jedi Knight at the end of TPM and immediately takes Anakin as a padawan. But presumably Anakin immediately began referring to Obi-Wan as "Master", just as he did in AOTC. We also see Yoda call Obi-Wan Master in AOTC. So, did Obi-Wan receive a promotion to Master between TPM and AOTC, or is Master a title of address that any Jedi Knight or Master currently training an apprentice receives, or are all Knights called Masters indiscriminately? And if so, what is the point of being promoted to Master if everyone calls you that anyway?

Luke made an awkward transition between Knight and Master as well. At the end of the Thrawn Trilogy he is still a Jedi Knight, but at the start of Dark Empire he is a Jedi Master. I assume he promoted himself offscreen as Jorus C''baoth did.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2004-04-05 02:54am

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall something about Obi-Wan's "Master" rank (in the time period of AOTC) is an honourary one, rather than the real thing.

m112880 · Post by **m112880** » 2004-04-05 10:36am

If i have it right jedi knights who are training someone are refered to as master even though they are not jedi masters.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-04-05 12:42pm

m112880 wrote:If i have it right jedi knights who are training someone are refered to as master even though they are not jedi masters.

Yeah, I kind of figured that he got froked too. I do know that there is a difference between what honorifics the civilians give them (Master Jedi) and the orders ranking system (Jedi Master).

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2004-04-05 12:43pm

not quite sure of my sources, but from my understanding the main separating factor between a jedi knight and a jedi master is their understanding of the Force and how it's used. Or possibly their experience. i'll have to double check my source later.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2004-04-05 05:54pm

Conjecture follows.

With the approval of the council, a Jedi Knight may take an apprentice to be their Padawan learner. The Jedi Knight is then 'Master' to his Padawan 'apprentice.' This is why a Jedi Knight may be refered to by the title Master, by both his/her apprentice and other Jedi (possibly even senior Jedi such as the instance wherein Yoda refers to Obi-wan as a Master). Further, I don't believe we ever see an instance of a title other than 'Master' being applied to an individual in the movies. Master Jedi or Master is about all we hear -- no one ever says Jedi Kenobi or some such, at least not as far as I can remember.

The honorific Master Jedi may be a combination of honorifics, similar to the way that it is customary for Germans to use an entire honorific (akin to saying Doctor Professor or some such). 'Master' used to be used as an honorific for a male who was not yet old enough to warrant the title 'Mister' and may be applied in a similar respect here, although that seems somewhat unlikely given that Obi-wan is certainly old enough by the time AOTC rolls around to warrant 'Mister' over 'Master.' This might, however, explain why Anakin is sometimes refered to as Master.

Just some things to think about.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-04-05 11:59pm

Generally a Jedi Master is considered to be a more powerful/more knowledgable Force User, one capable of being an effective teacher of apprentices. This is not a strict or absolute definition, as I believe there are some Jedi whose "raw" power in the Force (in terms of say absorbing/handling energy, mind control/influencee, or even telekinetic feats) may not be equal to others, but their sheer "knowledge" can make them effectively Masters. Also, one has to consider the "ways" in which a Master might be more powerful - some might have extremely specialized talents (mind trticks or energy handling as opposed to pure TK, or even something more esoteric like Mace Windu's "shatterpoint" talent) It could be quite possible to have a Master who is weaker in TK thana Knight, but has superior skills in other areas. It may not always even be a matter of raw power but one of efficiency (to an extent, at least). Anakin in AOTC could easily have been the equal in power to many Knights, but in fighting Dooku he expended his strength in a vastly less efficient manner compared to Dooku (this would illustrate Dooku's experience/knowlege in the Force being greater.)

In general, a generic Master is going to be more powerful than a generic Knight, though in what ways may be open to interpretation, and its usually safe to assume that Masters are more powerful Force users than a Knight unless there is reason to believe otherwise (Anakin would be an obvious example, as he is extraordinarily powerful, even for a Padawan.)

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-04-06 12:17am

Lord of the Farce wrote:I'm not sure, but I seem to recall something about Obi-Wan's "Master" rank (in the time period of AOTC) is an honourary one, rather than the real thing.

IIRC Qui-Gon died before he could complete Obiwans training.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2004-04-06 12:19am

evilcat4000 wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote:I'm not sure, but I seem to recall something about Obi-Wan's "Master" rank (in the time period of AOTC) is an honourary one, rather than the real thing.
IIRC Qui-Gon died before he could complete Obiwans training.

No he died before he could give the go ahead for the trials. Yoda admitted that Obi-Wan's training was complete.

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2004-04-06 03:12am

I always thought master is used in the same sense as someone addressing a martial artist. Though usually reserved for teachers, but not sure if black belts that teach or don't would be addressed in the same way.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2004-04-09 01:22am

Jedi Trainee- Jedi Apprentice/Padawan-Jedi Knight-Jedi Master

it is customery and respectful for a Padawan to call his/her master as master, "master obi-wan" "master tholme". Civilians of the Old Republic also call any Jedi except for trainees as master jedi.. Sio Bibble called Anakin "master jedi" Padme "corrects" him but dont forget for some reason Senators never liked Jedi and Jedi were never allowed in the Senate until the Palpatine "adminerstration" Padme could have just "corrected" him due to her love or some senatorial traits that her teachers passed to her. A Jedi Knight it seems dosent become a Master until he has proven himself very well after training a padawan or was involved in a Republic/Jedi saving mission. If not it could be like some knighting thing that happens in England were the royal family, in the Star Wars case Jedi Council recongnizes a Jedi Knight and promotes them to Jedi Master.