Need help upgrading the VSD II

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-26 05:42pm

As part of a SW SD (Story Debate) I'm in a dilemma. I want to make sure I don't powergame so I have asked ther other players for advice if the stats I have given to them are ok, I got mixed replies and my knowledge on refiting and upgrading old warships is not my area if I want a warship to perform as a combat vessel as much as possible then I need advice. I hope I can get som from here.

Here is the dilemma, I want to upgrade the VSD II to make it a more powerful warship, VSD III (if it is possible). The goal is to make it as powerful as possible for its size. It is to destroy the enemy not disable them, (hence no ion cannons).
I have removed all the ion cannons, 5 tractor beam emitters and replaced turbolaser batteries with double turbo laser batteries, 60 totally.
Can someone confirm if this upgrade is possible or not or please post a comment.

Old VSD II stats
Name/Model#
Victory-2 Class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer
Rendili StarDrive
Combat Designation
Capital Starship
Length
900 meters
Weapons
20 Turbolaser Batteries
20 Double Turbolaser Batteries
10 Ion Cannons
10 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors
Starfighter Squadrons
Two Squadrons
Crew
5,881
Gunners
228

New VSD III stats
Name/Model#
Victory-3 Class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer
Rendili StarDrive
Combat Designation
Capital Starship
Length
900 meters
Weapons
60 double turbolaser batteries
5 Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam Projectors
Starfighter Squadrons
Two Squadrons
Crew
3,600
Gunners
240

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-04-26 05:54pm

Your best bet is to remove the hangar, and either forego the fighter complement, or have it externally mounted as was done on the Carrack. The weapons aren't the main issue, the power for them is, so you are going to have to cram in additional reactors and batteries to guarantee a constant energy supply to everything that needs it..

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-26 06:07pm

It uses smaller crew, then the extra crew space could be removed and instead squeeze in more reactors?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2004-04-26 06:14pm

Dark Primus wrote:It uses smaller crew, then the extra crew space could be removed and instead squeeze in more reactors?

But more guns need more people to man them. The better bet is to scrap the fighter capability, and use that space to fill for the extra weapons.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2004-04-26 06:47pm

What about the 1600 troops?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-04-27 12:19am

If your looking for more of a pure capital ship...

I'd say scrap the fighter and ground troop complements. Use the space to install a more powerful engine and drive assembly, to give it a boost in sublight and hyperdrive speeds as well as more power to play with for the weapons and defence systems.

If you want to keep 1 tractor beam then do so, scrap the rest. Without fighters, you don't really need them.

I'd put at least a couple of big, heavy, anti ship weapons on her. If possible, I'd have 2 of the HTL turrets the ISD carries. One center dorsal, one under it on the ventral side. It'll give it punch far greater then most other ships her size as well as make it a real threat to heavier fleet units.

I'd strip off the Double turbolasers and Double Turoblaser batteries and retrofit in a new weapons array. Say 20 Medium Turbolasers for general work and 40 Quad Laser cannons like Lancer class Frigates use, divided into 8 batteries. With the same C&C systems Lancers use, for precise co-ordinated fire. This way you make up for the loss of your fighters for a screen (a VSD didn't carry enough fighters for an offensive force anyway) and make it damn near imune to anything short of a wing of B-Wings.

Keep a small docking bay, not a hanger, which supports an Assault Shuttle or two plus the 40 or so Spacetroopers to use it. So with its speed, firepower and ion cannons/tractor, you can pair in with an Interdictor and make inspections on trade routes or hyperspace reversion points.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-27 02:08am

vakundok wrote:What about the 1600 troops?

I forgot to add them to the list, but they are not needed.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2004-04-27 07:09am

Slave Circuits through the thing
external fighter racks
increase it's over all volume. Make it 10% wider and 10% 'taller'/thicker

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2004-04-27 01:51pm

Increasing its volume would be a massive rebuilt, not a refit like he wants. Decreased crew complement may result in a decrease in damage control ability and external fighter racks represent areas more easily damaged. Those tradeofs may or may not be worth it.

Things to ask before designing her
Specifically what you want to do with her. "Blowing up other ships" is not an acceptable answer.

What is the believed (not neccessarily actual) threat?

What is your intended operating area? Consider the range you will intend.

Can you afford the reworking to brace the larger complement of weapons? If you want ISD-sized guns, can you afford to bracing and armor cutout required for this?

Do you consider the poor acceleration of a VSD to be acceptable? If you want better engines, is the reduction in endurance acceptable?

Can you afford the upkeep on such a prestigous vessel?

And so forth.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-04-27 02:32pm

Chris OFarrell wrote: If you want to keep 1 tractor beam then do so, scrap the rest. Without fighters, you don't really need them.

Not true. You can use them for steering purposes (manuvering).

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2004-04-27 03:23pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote: If you want to keep 1 tractor beam then do so, scrap the rest. Without fighters, you don't really need them.
Not true. You can use them for steering purposes (manuvering).

They can also be useful in defending against last ditch ramming attacks.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2004-04-27 03:53pm

Remember that you'll want some troopers to repel boarding actions and to, in turn, board other ships... plain crewmen, even if they're gunners, won't suffice (you will recall how the crewers on Tantive IV got slaughtered by the stormies?). I'd suggest retaining about, eh, two hundredish? Depends upon mission objectives...

Alternatively, you could have some crew who can double-duty as troopers-- crew that have been trained as troopers, or actual troopers who are trained to act as members of the crew. That way you'd have a quick emergency boarders-repelling force without losing crew space.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-27 05:52pm

phongn wrote: Increasing its volume would be a massive rebuilt, not a refit like he wants. Decreased crew complement may result in a decrease in damage control ability and external fighter racks represent areas more easily damaged. Those tradeofs may or may not be worth it.

Noted.

phongn wrote: What is the believed (not neccessarily actual) threat?

Larger and more powerful enemy warships are the greater threats, bombers and heavy fighters are threats.
The countermeasure for that is making the VSD able to dish out more damage to the enemy in shorter amount of time, and to use its own fighters for cover.

phongn wrote: What is your intended operating area? Consider the range you will intend.

I am hoping the VSD after the refit can be used as an attack cruiser, using it as a front line warship instead for defensive purposes.

phongn wrote: Can you afford the reworking to brace the larger complement of weapons? If you want ISD-sized guns, can you afford to bracing and armor cutout required for this?

Yes. But I don't think the HTL would be more effective.
I'm thinking adding more of the medium turbolaser weapons perhaps should be enough to give it an edge over other medium warships in her size and firepower.

phongn wrote: Do you consider the poor acceleration of a VSD to be acceptable? If you want better engines, is the reduction in endurance acceptable?

Still debating that in my head.

phongn wrote: Can you afford the upkeep on such a prestigous vessel?

The costs for building, maintaining and their effectivness in battle would determine the numbers of ships being built from scrath with the new changes.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-27 05:55pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Alternatively, you could have some crew who can double-duty as troopers-- crew that have been trained as troopers, or actual troopers who are trained to act as members of the crew. That way you'd have a quick emergency boarders-repelling force without losing crew space.

Good Idea.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2004-04-27 06:31pm

How many VSDs are you planning to upgrade? If you have say 20 or so, and depending on the resources you have to refit them, namely shipyards, you could specialize a bit. Turn 12 of them in gunships, 6 into carriers, and the last two into command/commo ships. If you have other ships available to fill these roles, then what everyone else has suggested is right on.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-29 11:35am

Deathstalker wrote:How many VSDs are you planning to upgrade? If you have say 20 or so, and depending on the resources you have to refit them, namely shipyards, you could specialize a bit. Turn 12 of them in gunships, 6 into carriers, and the last two into command/commo ships. If you have other ships available to fill these roles, then what everyone else has suggested is right on.

I have only one. But I am thinking of building new ones with these upgrades.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-29 12:12pm

I might build two verions instead of one. One with like a minitaure battleship, a small ship with many guns but no fighters, and the other with light guns, few medium weapons but plenty of fighters, and they are deployed two and two, one provides the firepower, the other provides the fighters for back up. I believe someone did post the idea here.
That way I get both of what I want.

Edit: Then what would be the perfect weapons for the ship providing the firepower and the other serving as a carrier and how many fighters can an VSD actually carry if some of the larger weapons are removed?
If some of the weapons removed then some reactors would be useless adding space for more fighters.

Deathstalker · Post by **Deathstalker** » 2004-04-30 03:15pm

Had a thought the other day. The nice thing about the SW universe is that there are so many ship designs, that you could make up any reasonnable ship you like. Instead of upgrading, just finalize the design and name it something cool and come up with a backstory to fit its' design. For example, the Dauntless class was a contemporary of the Victory class, designed to provide the heavy punch while the Victory would be a jack or all trades ship, providing antiship, fighter and troop carrying ablities. The Dauntless excelled in starship combat, but had no offesive troop compliment and did not carry starfighters. Unless you have a reason wanting to upgrade a Victory just make up a new ship.

Dark Primus · Post by **Dark Primus** » 2004-04-30 07:33pm

Deathstalker wrote:Had a thought the other day. The nice thing about the SW universe is that there are so many ship designs, that you could make up any reasonnable ship you like. Instead of upgrading, just finalize the design and name it something cool and come up with a backstory to fit its' design. For example, the Dauntless class was a contemporary of the Victory class, designed to provide the heavy punch while the Victory would be a jack or all trades ship, providing antiship, fighter and troop carrying ablities. The Dauntless excelled in starship combat, but had no offesive troop compliment and did not carry starfighters. Unless you have a reason wanting to upgrade a Victory just make up a new ship.

Well other players are making new ships but I think I'm going to stick some of the elder ships first, upgrading them to the outermost, before building new complete class of warships. I don't know why, probably I don't want to see the VSD has done its job I guess and moving on to others.