Battle of Endor question

[Dark Primus]

I'm wondering if the ISD's that were present at Endor were they the ISD-I or the ISD-II, or mixed of both?

I have been wondering about that, since I noticed in the PC game X-Wing Alliance that most of the ISD's where ISD-II (I know, games are not canon). I doubt they can have been ISD-II since they are more powerful then the ISD-I's and they are capable to stand up to the Mon Cal cruisers, but we saw in the scene when Ackbar orders everyone to concentrate their fire on the Executor, one MC-80b single handedly destroys an ISD, now the question is what type was it?

[Howedar]

I believe all engine baffles were of the ISD-II type, but I am not sure.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Essential Chronology says HIMS Devestator, an Imperial-class Mark I destroyer from A New Hope, was destroyed above Endor's moon,

[Ma Deuce]

I doubt they can have been ISD-II since they are more powerful then the ISD-I's and they are capable to stand up to the Mon Cal cruisers, but we saw in the scene when Ackbar orders everyone to concentrate their fire on the Executor, one MC-80b single handedly destroys an ISD, now the question is what type was it?

A few notes on the MonCal cruisers: The pre-Endor models are actually inferior to ISDs (which shouldn't be surprising, considering they are actually converted spaceliners). They are however quite durable, but they are slower (at sublight) and have less firepower and fighters than ISDs. Two MC80s are usually necessary to take down an ISD in direct combat.

About the MC80 (either nil or a, the MC80b didn't appear until after Endor) destroying that ISD: It's likely the ISD was already damaged (possibly badly), considering this was a large fleet engagement, with many things happening that couldn't be caught on camera. There is no way a few turbolaser blasts are going to make an undamaged (even unshielded) ISD explode like that.

[Lord Pounder]

I'd always assumed it was a mixxed bag of Mk I's and II's given that the fleet was a mixture of Death Squadron and the local sector fleet.

[vakundok]

Do not underestimate the mon cal cruisers!
"The two armadas, like their sea-bound ancestors, blast away at
each other in individual point-blank confrontations. A Star
Destroyer explodes. The Rebel victor limps away, its back half
alive with a series of minor explosions. The Rebel cruiser
manages to move in next to a second Star Destroyer before it
explodes completely, taking the Imperial Star Destroyer with it."
"Lando, Wedge, Blue Leader, and Green Wing went in to take out one of the larger Destroyers-- the Empire's main communications ship. It had already been disabled by direct cannonade from the Rebel cruiser it had subsequently destroyed; but its damages were reparable ..."

Dr Saxton's suggestion that the modelers would have used different scales for the destroyers and the mon cal cruisers pissed me, so I tried to determine from the movie whether they are 1200 or 1500 meters long. The frames those show the bayless destroyer actually show a (near)half wide destroyer closer than a (Liberty type) mon cal (with near full width visible). I also used the blueprints on Dr Saxton's page to get a lenght/width ratio for both the cruiser and for the destroyer. However, the rough result (as a lower limit) was more than 2 kms, so there must be an error.

[phongn]

There were three 3.2km cruisers, one of which was ADM Ackbar's flagship Home One. There were also the 1.5km winged cruisers, such as Liberty and wingless analogues to it.

[Illuminatus Primus]

3.8 km cruisers.

[PainRack]

IIRC, Empire magazine, prior to the release of SW TPM had a series of articles about warsies. Other than the typical KJA wankers(groan, I can't believe one of them talked about the droid taking over the Death Star as little known fact of SW), one of the fan interviewed mentioned that the little known fact about SW wasthat in the third movie, they used the exact same engine baffles for the ISD as that of the first movie.

Indicating that of all the models he saw, they were actually ISD I........................................................

[vakundok]

There were three 3.2km cruisers, one of which was ADM Ackbar's flagship Home One. There were also the 1.5km winged cruisers, such as Liberty and wingless analogues to it.

If it was a reply to my post: Sadly, I got the 2.2 km low end figure for the Liberty- type (winged) cruiser. These frame parts show that the widest part of the cruiser is farther than that of the ISD:
Frame 1
Frame 2
Frame 3
Frame 4
There is a filming error also supporting this. (On one frame, part of the edge of the ISD becomes invisible and the wing of the cruiser can be seen.)
From the first frame, the cruiser is at least 201 pixel wide, and the visible near half of the ISD is 88. Since no significant angling is visible, I counted the full width as 190. (The hull depth is 50 and based on Saxton's destroyer appendix, it gives 188 width.)
The EGVV schematics on Saxton's page give a 624/345 lenght/width ratio for the ISD and 1040/436 for the Liberty (through height). These, based on the 1606 meters lenght of the ISD would give 888m width for the ISD and at very least 939m width and 2240m lenght for the cruiser.
However, I tried to check the lenght/width ratio of the ISD on the ventral ISD picture in the appendix, but it gives 807/512 (1018 meters width), very different from that in the EGVV. Can someone confirm the width of an ISD?

[Dark Primus]

About the MC80 (either nil or a, the MC80b didn't appear until after Endor) destroying that ISD: It's likely the ISD was already damaged (possibly badly), considering this was a large fleet engagement, with many things happening that couldn't be caught on camera. There is no way a few turbolaser blasts are going to make an undamaged (even unshielded) ISD explode like that.

I swear every time I see people talk about Mon Cal cruisers I see different data all the time. LOL

To topic at hand. See if I get this straight. The Mon Cal cruisers at Endor were not MC-80a's and b's, those ships that were at Endor were inferior models that came before them.
But then can MC-80a and b considered equal to the mighty star destroyer, since they are suppose to be more powerful models?

[phongn]

The MC80A appeared to be a production-streamlined version of the MC80-type cruiser. Both were 1.2 km in length and inferior in firepower to an ISD. It was not observed at Endor.

The MC80B appeared afterwards and was a stop-gap design while design work on the MC90 continued. While not as well-armed as an ISD, it had extraordinarily tough shielding and armor. The second and third flights had fighters with four and eight squadrons, respectively.