Fleet Strength to take on DS1

[Mr Bean]

Omega there is no such thing as the Hypermatter Generator

Oh and the Reactor Core seen in ROTJ? Apprently its the same as the DS 1s Reactor Core(Slightly smaller but not much)

And you mind telling me how Commands will be able to slip through roughly 600 Decks then cross the "Giant Gaping Void" keeping in mind they will have to carry the roughly.... two tons of Expolsives Nessary to destroy hmm Cooling tower would be best, would have to run on back-up systems would take the SL out of Action but leave the Hyperdrive functiong

[consequences]

My starting stategy in this situation was to present the Imperials with a number of planets, fully shielded, and outfitted as industrial centers. I let the Death Star destroy the first half a dozen while only resisting with the forces that planet had on hand, to lull the Imps into a false sense of security. When the Death Star attacked, I hit it with enormous fighter waves repeatedly, while moving my fleet into extreme engagement range. The fleet consisted of about 3000 ISD maxed for use as combat platforms to the exclusion of all else, several hundred recommisioned Trade Federation Droid Control Ships retrofitted to act solely as fighter carriers, 140 Invincible class Dreadnaughts that had been gutted for refit as mini superlaser platforms on a spinal mount, and an armada of fully droid controllled gunships in the 1-500 meter range. To act as my major shipkiller, I had an obviously cobbled together 10 km monstrosity that acted as the focal point for the Dreadnaughts, protected bynearly a hundred full scale planetary shield generators on a straight line from the focus ship to the DS superlaser. After sending enormous droid fighter waves to deplete the surface guns, using everything from strafing runs to ramming attacks to seismic charges to droids equipped with plasma cutters and demolition charges dropped onto the hull, I had the Dreadnaughts hit it with repeated superlaser fire, both to hurt the shields as much as possible, and to draw off as much of the DS Superlaser charge as I could in its attempts to retaliate. Once I caused a shield breach, I had 3 specially prepared ISDs hyper into the DS, followed by another ISD into the center of the area the first 3 hit. I followed this with wholesale suicide tactics on the part of the droid controlled armada, while continually swamping the DS with fighters, interspersed with carefully calculated shots from the Dreadnaughts.
End result one dead DS, in exchange for 7 planets gone, with all assoiated automated factories, 1 10 km monstrosity exploded, untold millions of fighter losses, 50 heavily refitted ISDs, and tens of thousands of droid controlled minor capships gone.
Note, this was when all involved parties considered the ISD to be the height of mass produced Imperial power, and before I had discovered this site. Knowing what I know now, I would increase the numbers by at least an order of magnitude, but mostly keep my original strategy, at least for the first time I went DS hunting
If anyone has any refinements to suggest, or reasons why my plan couldn't have worked as a general outline, please, go ahead and tell me.

[omegaLancer]

Why two tons, wouldnot a thermal detonator or a few kilograms of antimatter ( in a special containment unit) be enought..

Getting a few highily trained spies on board the Death star would not be easy, but with the vast number of poeple manning the DS, one would assume that a few rebel spies must have managed to make it aboard.

other than that, turning the Galaxy gun on the deathstar would be your only chance...

[Mr Bean]

Why two tons, wouldnot a thermal detonator or a few kilograms of antimatter ( in a special containment unit) be enought..

The point is you only chance of getting any expolisv onboard is to use old fasion ones, things like Anti-Matter and Thermal Detonators are going to set every weapons dectetor on the DS dancing like a Snow-glob

[hvb]

Sea Skimmer:

Anyway I subscribe to Marina's fleet calculations, thus its 5000 out of about 2 million.

as do I, my comment referred to the 5000 were 20% of the manouver element of 25k elite ISDs, rather then the 2e6 ships that are needed for local control, and so cannot be used for any but desperate offensive measures.
(which I would assume this to be: the thing has a firepower > ½ starfleet = 1e6 ISDs, if it only has 1% the equivalent defences to its firepower, it would take great luck for the 5k ISDs to put a nail in its coffin!)

If Mr. Bean is correct and they have food & fuel to fire their main gun (the latter I doubt) for years, and sabotage fails too, then I would pack my stuff and set sails for another, more peacefull, galaxy: the only way to win is not to play

The only hope I can see is to prevent it from refueling its hypermatter fuel tanks, thereby starving its superlaser & hyperdrive, before trying to take it on. Of course if you feel lucky ... go right ahead and send your relatively puny fleet against that fully armed & fully functional battlestation. Look as good you will not after that battle.

[Mr Bean]

Hvb the DS 1 was stated as being fully self-sufficent meaning it probably even has mining facilites aboard for Hypermatter



But thats just guess-work the DS was bad ass station

[Spartan]

Mr. Bean Wrote:

We must concluded that Bevel Lemisk and Co where idiots if the Proto-type produced in the Maw was able to nearly hit the Sun-Crusher and fire multiple times in under a half hour

Just because they had the technical ability to make DS1 capable of firing multiple shots, does not meant that they did so. Technical merit is not the only concern when approving a design, expense is also a factor. Since DS1 supposedly had no weaknesses, and was intended as a terror weapon; there was no need to waste funds or resources on the ability to hit capships. That's what the HTL are for. Its very likely that they optimized DS1 to recharge to planet killer-level as quickly as the technology of the time allowed.


I say fire up the galaxy gun, or a few ESD scale SL and take down the shields. Then swarm the DS with Cap ships.

[Andras]

If anyone has any refinements to suggest, or reasons why my plan couldn't have worked as a general outline, please, go ahead and tell me.

Too bad you forgot the Interdictors...

DS fires one shot at planet and leaves

[Sea Skimmer]

Sea Skimmer:

Anyway I subscribe to Marina's fleet calculations, thus its 5000 out of about 2 million.

as do I, my comment referred to the 5000 were 20% of the manouver element of 25k elite ISDs, rather then the 2e6 ships that are needed for local control, and so cannot be used for any but desperate offensive measures.
(which I would assume this to be: the thing has a firepower > ½ starfleet = 1e6 ISDs, if it only has 1% the equivalent defences to its firepower, it would take great luck for the 5k ISDs to put a nail in its coffin!)

If Mr. Bean is correct and they have food & fuel to fire their main gun (the latter I doubt) for years, and sabotage fails too, then I would pack my stuff and set sails for another, more peacefull, galaxy: the only way to win is not to play

The only hope I can see is to prevent it from refueling its hypermatter fuel tanks, thereby starving its superlaser & hyperdrive, before trying to take it on. Of course if you feel lucky ... go right ahead and send your relatively puny fleet against that fully armed & fully functional battlestation. Look as good you will not after that battle.

While the Death Star has massively more firepower, the my forces are only going to be facing maybe 1/24's of it once they close, and the defensive emplacements die in one shot from any capital ship weapon or a single burst from a fighter's lasers.

The opening salvo from 5000 ISD's could wipe out some 700,000 emplacements. 30 salvos per minute adds up to 21,600,000 emplacements killed in just one minute.

Even deviding by ten to take into account misses from jamming and shots not fired by destroyed vessels, I'd still be able to clear out the area I need within a few minutes.

Then I pound through the armor and any shieling which might exist under the surface. Then on to the core!

[Mr Bean]

Of course Sea-Skimmer Assumes that the shields are down...

Technical merit is not the only concern when approving a design, expense is also a factor. Since DS1 supposedly had no weaknesses, and was intended as a terror weapon; there was no need to waste funds or resources on the ability to hit capships. That's what the HTL are for. Its very likely that they optimized DS1 to recharge to planet killer-level as quickly as the technology of the time allowed.

No the point is the Proto type, build with raw materials on hand(Its a super secret base after all they don't make regular deviverys) was able to focus and aim at a less than 15 Meter sized object and nearly hit it in only two shots...

Rouglhy is equivlant to somone's Home Build Pumpink Captapult being able to hit the head of a pin at 60 yards relibly

[Sea Skimmer]

Of course Sea-Skimmer Assumes that the shields are down...

What shields?

At worst my hoard of capital ships needs to pass through some outer shield which doesn’t seem to be an actual defense by slowing down, before it can kill millions of emplacements a minute.

The surface emplacements are unprotected, or the DS's shielding is just so weak it can't take X-Wing laser cannon fire. Another possibility is it has shields in addition to armor but that they don’t protect the surface emplacements.

Either way it doesn’t matter, once a safe area has been cleared the force can deal with the swarms of TIE's abd pound through any shielding and armor along with the superlaser emmiters.

[Master of Ossus]

But the DS can easily rotate. You would need a hell of a lot of ships, or the ability to move the fleet more quickly than the DS can rotate, or the ability to destroy the surface emplacements faster than the DS can bring new ones to bear. That would take a hell of a lot of weapons and ships. You would also, somehow, need to keep the DS from jumping to hyperspace, and be able to defeat any reinforcements that move in to assist the space station.

[Sea Skimmer]

But the DS can easily rotate. You would need a hell of a lot of ships, or the ability to move the fleet more quickly than the DS can rotate, or the ability to destroy the surface emplacements faster than the DS can bring new ones to bear. That would take a hell of a lot of weapons and ships. You would also, somehow, need to keep the DS from jumping to hyperspace, and be able to defeat any reinforcements that move in to assist the space station.

I'm basing my plan on my ISD's being able to exceed the rotational speed and acceleration of the battle station. My biggest fear would be the station rotating and then ramming its self into my ships. However given its mere 100G maximum velocity I believe the ships should be able to keep in within the safe area with ease. In ESB a damaged ISD turned 180 within a distant of perhaps 3,000 meters, so reversing course wont be a problem either.

Now that I think about it more, I might attack first the superlaser dish, and the work along the surface till I reach the engine banks. While there output would likely destroy near any ship instantly, I doubt they'd stand up well to having the area around them blown to pieces.

Basically I'd cut my fire into the station at an angle to kill the power feeds. Those going up might prove near lethal on their own. If now, blast into the structure till something s fund that will kill it as usual.


A large number of standoff interdictors with heavy screens should keep the Death Star from jumping away. I'd be sure to have reserve groups in case the superlaser gets a couple.

[Darth Yoshi]

It's been suggested that a commando team slip in and bomb the core. Why not do the same thing to the exhaust port? That's how the DSI was killed. Luke plugged the exhaust pipe. Plug the exhaust shaft, lure it into firing the superlaser, and boom!

[Sea Skimmer]

It's been suggested that a commando team slip in and bomb the core. Why not do the same thing to the exhaust port? That's how the DSI was killed. Luke plugged the exhaust pipe. Plug the exhaust shaft, lure it into firing the superlaser, and boom!

I really doubt sufficient heat could be vented through that port as to be a threat to the station if contained. More likely the walls of the shaft could melt and part of a few decks would be damaged. Lukes torpedo added a multi megaton explosion to the equation.

[Darth Yoshi]

Well, I don't see how a few megatons will make a difference to something like the Death Star.

[consequences]

I only forgot to mention the Interdictors in my post, and boy do I feel stupid about that now.
DOOOHHHH!

[SPOOFE]

We must concluded that Bevel Lemisk and Co where idiots if the Proto-type produced in the Maw was able to nearly hit the Sun-Crusher and fire multiple times in under a half hour

'At's a debating fallacy right there, buckaroo... excluding the middle ground from the list of possibilities. Perhaps the notion that the superlaser would be used against capital ships was discarded, in favor of simply using the thousands upon thousands of turbolaser turrets on the DS's surface?

Whatever. The simple fact of the matter is that the EU tells us that Tarkin's Death Star was not capable of firing in rapid succession. Period.

[hvb]

I just remembered:
Mara Jade had override codes for the ISDs.

The Emperor would have installed a similar system on the Death Stars, it would pose a much greater threat to him then a lone ISD after all.
Likely only he, the Grand Admirals & possibly Vader would have these (Vader could then step in if Tarkin got sneaky and set course for Coruscant or whatever).

Solution: since we are likely talking a rouge DS here, place a call to Thrawn/whichever Grand Admiral is nearest/alive at the time of the incidet and get him to send a spy with the code aboard.
One computer access later you can capture an inert DS through bording action.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well, I don't see how a few megatons will make a difference to something like the Death Star.

How about a few hundred megatons directed against the main reactor containment vessel? That’s what the warhead would have hit. Chances are it caused a rupture which set off the reaction that destroyed the station.

[consequences]

A few hundred megatons in the right place might do it, the difficulty is getting to the right place through all of the armor that is going to be in the way.