Darth Vader vs the Death Star

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-05-22 03:58am

In "A New Hope" Vader says that the the Death Star is nothing compared to the power of the force (I forget the exact wording)...... so the Emperor, being a throughly evil fellow, decides to but his boasting to the test. Vader is trying to destroy the Death Star, and the Death Star has orders to destroy him; just the DS, not the entire Empire (the Emperor is "testing" Vader- he won't intervene either). Neither knows the location of the other at the beginning of the "test"; first one to destroy the other wins.

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-05-22 04:01am

Vader has... what ? Lambda shuttle, ISD, SSD ? A DS commander dumb enough to call for a viewscreen conference ?

The Nomad · Post by **The Nomad** » 2004-05-22 04:02am

And besides, Vader was probably talking about Exar Kun - level Force users, or something more subtle ( long-range prescience, for example ).

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2004-05-22 04:06am

He just gets dropped off at a random planet (since we know the Emperor is evil, lets make it Tatooine ); with only his suit and lightsaber and force skills. Using these, he has to somehow destroy the Death Star (que Mygiver music).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-22 04:12am

It's called hyperbole.

And also not taking such dialogue so literally.

EDIT: And the line was: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-05-22 04:17am

Timothy Zahn once commented that he interpreted Vader's line as meaning something more akin to "the pen is mightier than the sword." Ordinarily I disagree with Zahn's minimalist bent, but I have to agree with him on this one. I roll my eyes at some of the Forcewank shit other authors have pulled off in the EU.

*cough*KJA*cough*

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-22 04:31am

Galvatron wrote:Timothy Zahn once commented that he interpreted Vader's line as meaning something more akin to "the pen is mightier than the sword." Ordinarily I disagree with Zahn's minimalist bent, but I have to agree with him on this one. I roll my eyes at some of the Forcewank shit other authors have pulled off in the EU.

*cough*KJA*cough*

Actually if you've seen some of the canon estimates for Jedi capabilities, you wouldn't neccesarily think KJA was Jedi-wanking (or anyone else for that matter.)

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-05-22 04:31am

Well, considering the cloned Emperor was able to create those huge force storms..... (Imagine a bunch of people with Palpatines force power and skill combining together for a massive clusterfuck of a force storm or something

)

I think it means that overall, in the grand scheme of things the Force is indeed much more powerfull, (it is just very wide spread and not focused, but the potential is there). You can also do more things with the force if you know how to wield it, where's the Death Star is a specific tool with a specific task.

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2004-05-22 08:21am

Vader would be able to recruit pretty much any ship in the imperial fleet. (With mind tricks if nothing else). The resulting fight would be horrificaly wasteful of imperial resources, but enough star destroyers could take the deathstar down.

Alternately he could kill the death star using a fighter, and maybe a couple of wingmen. Tarkin wouldn't order any fighters out, so it wouldn't be too hard.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-05-22 10:41am

Timothy Zahn created Dark Jedi able to take over the minds of the entire crew of the Chimaera at once. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

In I, Jedi, Brakiss supposes a powerful enough Jedi Master could have reached up and "ripped the core out" of the Death Star above Yavin.

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2004-05-22 10:58am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Timothy Zahn created Dark Jedi able to take over the minds of the entire crew of the Chimaera at once. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

I think that was Zahn's point. The Force can bend the wills of men like "the pen" can influence thought. C'Baoth's mind control was simply a logical manifestation of this philosophy.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:In I, Jedi, Brakiss supposes a powerful enough Jedi Master could have reached up and "ripped the core out" of the Death Star above Yavin.

I think KJA actually beat Stackpole to the punch when he had Kyp Durron snatch the Sun Crusher out of Yavin's gravity.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-05-22 02:01pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Timothy Zahn created Dark Jedi able to take over the minds of the entire crew of the Chimaera at once. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

In I, Jedi, Brakiss supposes a powerful enough Jedi Master could have reached up and "ripped the core out" of the Death Star above Yavin.

I, Jedi was a stackpole book though...

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2004-05-22 02:18pm

Vader's line foreshadowed Luke's use of the Force to target the exhaust port. Luke was the Force's instrument, and vice versa. The Force frequently operates in subtle ways. I imagine that Vader could accomplish the same feat, given a decent snubfighter armed with proton torpedoes.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-05-22 02:36pm

Suppossedly there is a reference in a book out there that says Vader's statement is literally true and credits the Emperor with being able to destroy solar systems with the Force.

I want to say it was one of the really old technical journals (like the ones that say proton torpedos are almost 1 KT), but I'm not sure.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-22 04:30pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Timothy Zahn created Dark Jedi able to take over the minds of the entire crew of the Chimaera at once. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

Nothing compared to what Kun did in The Tales of the Jedi series (he weaved a mind control powerful enough to take contrrol of/immobilize the ENTIRE Republic senate, all under the noses of Jedi who were present. And he didnt even appear strained by the effort.

Which is to say ntohing of the whole "Emperor clouding the minds of millions or billions of people" simultaneously.

In I, Jedi, Brakiss supposes a powerful enough Jedi Master could have reached up and "ripped the core out" of the Death Star above Yavin.

And in Star by Star it was speculated that powerful Jedi/Dark Jedi could destroy an entire starfighter/freighter with the Force. (Aside from the whle "guiding shadow bombs moving at relatavistic speeds" bit.)

As I already pointed out, this isn't surpsing given Yoda's "effortless" lifting of an X-wing, or Anakin being able to withstand thousands of gees of deceleration from a 700-meter free-fall in AOTC.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-22 04:32pm

Galvatron wrote: I think KJA actually beat Stackpole to the punch when he had Kyp Durron snatch the Sun Crusher out of Yavin's gravity.

Kyp didn't telekinetically rip the Sun crusher out from Yavin's core (although he had contemplated the possibility of doing so - so its possible he could still have done so) - he used his control of the Force to manipulate its controls and guide it out.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-22 04:36pm

Icehawk wrote:Well, considering the cloned Emperor was able to create those huge force storms..... (Imagine a bunch of people with Palpatines force power and skill combining together for a massive clusterfuck of a force storm or something )

Nothing compared to a couple dozen Jedi Trainees combining their efforts to fling nearly a score of Star Destroyers away at relatavistic speeds (Darksaber) And even using the excuse of the "Temples as amplifiers" (although the exact use of the temples isn't certain.), its still yields some fucking absurd numbers.

And of course there is the Clone Wars stuff.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-22 05:48pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Timothy Zahn created Dark Jedi able to take over the minds of the entire crew of the Chimaera at once. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

In I, Jedi, Brakiss supposes a powerful enough Jedi Master could have reached up and "ripped the core out" of the Death Star above Yavin.

Brakiss was supposing, not making a statement of fact. He was prone to delusions of grandeur; this was yet another example. Doesn't make it true.

Crazedwraith wrote:I, Jedi was a stackpole book though...

And?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2004-05-22 05:57pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:I, Jedi was a stackpole book though...
And?

Well, I though IP was using that example as evidence against Zahn using a "pen mightier than the sword" approach to the force. Thus the fatc that wasn't written by Zahn was highly relevant.

Kyle · Post by **Kyle** » 2004-05-22 10:04pm

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Just to point out something. He's saying the Force is more powerful then the Death Star, not that he personally is more powerful. In that context he seems perfectly correct.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-05-22 10:18pm

Vader could also be poetically stating that for all the technological achievements that the Death Star represents for the Empire, it is still completely vulnerable to the Force (or something like that; had trouble trying to state exactly what I mean).

Such a point of view would fit pretty well coming from someone like Vader. Even though he is totally dependent on technology for his very survival, it was the Force alone that saved him from death all those years ago.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-22 10:39pm

Back to the original topic, Vader would probably just mind trick his way to the Death Star, set self destruct and casually leave. I mean, why couldn't he?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-05-23 12:45am

The whole "isignificant next to the Force" quote is largely hyperbole (as has been repeated already ad infinitum).. it could be interepted as having been demonstrated when Luke used the Force to help destroy the Death Star, I suppose..

Anyohw, directly there ain't much Vader can do at it. The DS could easily destroy the planet Vader is on from light minutes out - and unless he can get away he'd be killed. Indirectly though, he can stand a chance. Hijack a freighter, get it lured onboard. Oncec onboard, he can eaisly roam about at will (like Obi-Wan did) and do what is needed to defeat/destroy the Death STar. Or, if he wants to have fun, he could steal a fighter and do the trench run.