Yoda or Emperor? Raw force power...

[The Prime Necromancer]

This is probably going to show my ignorance of the EU, and to a lesser extent the Prequels (or the extras on the DVD, anyway), but I have a few questions.

First of all, whenever it's Palpatine vs. anyone, everyone all seems to claim he's going to instantly whip out Force Storms. How easy was this for him in Dark Empire? Did he just snap his fingers like Q, and suddenly there's cap-ship destroying energies flying around? Second, is this something he's going to use on a *person*? I mean, it doesn't sound like something that you can use on something (or someone) standing a couple of meters from you, it'd be like using a nuke as a personal-defense weapon. Thirdly, I don't know the specifics, but apparently Luke (who learned most of what he knows from Yoda) and Leia (who has *no* Force-related training to speak of) were able to do some light-side thing to turn the energies back on him, and destroy him. What makes everyone think Yoda, who's hundreds of years more experienced, couldn't do something similar?

Finally, I wonder if someone could give me clarification on just what GL said on the DVD. I've heard people say that it proves that the Dark side is stronger, bar none, yet I've also seen GL quoted in another thread saying the Dark side was "immediately stronger." If *that's* the case, then that's basically what Yoda said in TESB: the Dark side is quicker and easier to master, and thus one is capable of quickly getting greater power with less time and training. But that doesn't mean that it's stronger overall.

Back to the question. In my opinion, I suppose it depends on what you're measuring. If you're asking who can destroy the most stuff, then I'd probably choose the Emperor. But as to who has more "control over the Force" or even necessarily who would win in a fight, I'm not as certain. I'd *like* to say they'd be evenly matched. That's a Golden Mean falacy of course, which is why I'm not claiming that's necessarily the case.

[Techno_Union]

This is probably going to show my ignorance of the EU, and to a lesser extent the Prequels (or the extras on the DVD, anyway), but I have a few questions.

First of all, whenever it's Palpatine vs. anyone, everyone all seems to claim he's going to instantly whip out Force Storms. How easy was this for him in Dark Empire? Did he just snap his fingers like Q, and suddenly there's cap-ship destroying energies flying around? Second, is this something he's going to use on a *person*? I mean, it doesn't sound like something that you can use on something (or someone) standing a couple of meters from you, it'd be like using a nuke as a personal-defense weapon. Thirdly, I don't know the specifics, but apparently Luke (who learned most of what he knows from Yoda) and Leia (who has *no* Force-related training to speak of) were able to do some light-side thing to turn the energies back on him, and destroy him. What makes everyone think Yoda, who's hundreds of years more experienced, couldn't do something similar?

Well Palpatine did not seem like he needed long to make a storm, a couple second or so. But he could adjust the power from destroying cap-ships to just transporting Luke to Byss/cargo ship. Luke and Lea needed to do stop him.

Finally, I wonder if someone could give me clarification on just what GL said on the DVD. I've heard... <snip>

Don't know much about that.

[Kurgan]

Leia's force abilities wax and wane throughout the EU. In some books she can barely turn on a lightswitch from across the room with the Force, in others she's nearly equal to Luke (who is of course very powerful).

Her "training" would come mostly from Luke, but also from holocrons, the Cloned Emperor, and from others. She isn't exactly helpless, just some of the EU authors "forget" she has any skills and act like the Force is something you "forget how to use" if you don't study it constantly every day.

[Stofsk]

Second, is this something he's going to use on a *person*? I mean, it doesn't sound like something that you can use on something (or someone) standing a couple of meters from you, it'd be like using a nuke as a personal-defense weapon.

Essentially correct. It should be noted that Palpatine and Luke were duelling immediately before the Force Storm was revealed to damage the Rebel Fleet (I counted 8-10 ships which were either completely destroyed or in the process of being dismantled), and that Palpatine lost when Luke cut his hand off. Palpatine didn't use the FS on Luke or Leia.

Thirdly, I don't know the specifics, but apparently Luke (who learned most of what he knows from Yoda) and Leia (who has *no* Force-related training to speak of) were able to do some light-side thing to turn the energies back on him, and destroy him. What makes everyone think Yoda, who's hundreds of years more experienced, couldn't do something similar?

Another thing that's essentially correct. We know Force Lightning can be absorbed by a lightsabre, and that Yoda has some ability to absorb it himself and redirect it on the attacker. We know Force Storms are large scale destructive energies that can heavily damage/destroy ships as large as a Eclipse SSD. And we know Palpatine has a lightsabre and can use it but was defeated by Luke.

But as to who has more "control over the Force" or even necessarily who would win in a fight, I'm not as certain. I'd *like* to say they'd be evenly matched. That's a Golden Mean falacy of course, which is why I'm not claiming that's necessarily the case.

Assuming a straight up fight, Yoda wins - more likely by a narrow margin, and perhaps MAD comes in and spoils both guy's days (in the case of a 'redirected force storm' trick, Luke and Leia had to leg it to the shuttlebay and blast out of there, and they were lucky to do so; if Yoda can do the same trick then he may simply not escape in time).

However, I'd think Palpatine knows this - hence why in the canon movies he acts behind the scenes and uses people like pawns, never confronting the Jedi directly.

[Trogdor]

I always saw it like this:

Siths generally like to use a raw power fighting style when it comes to the Force. It looks flashy and is extremely destructive, but you probably have to expend a hell of a lot of mental energy to do it. Come lightining and thunder and blow my enemies to shit and all that.

Jedi, on the other hand, when they're fighting Sith the way they're SUPPOSED to (Luke and Obi-Wan both seemed to take brief plunges into the dark side to defeat Vader and Maul, respectively) redirect their foe's attack. Yoda didn't create his own force lightning, he sent Dooku's back at him. It's akin to judo or other forms of martial arts where rather than knocking your enemy down on his face, you throw him off balance a little so he knocks himself on his face, or at least it seemed to me when Yoda fought Dooku.

So in a battle with just Force powers, I'd give it to Yoda. I expect Yoda could at least outlast Palpy. Still, it's hard to call. There's no cannon proof that Yoda can't create his own lightning, or that Palpy can't bounce around like crazy. They just haven't had reason to do these things.