Interview with George Lucas on the SE SE DVDs

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-09-20 11:17am

Didn't he go back and make more changes to changes he already made?

Like Luke's scream and altering the Solo/Greedo thing? If the special editions are his final vision, why is he messing with things he already "fixed?"

Butterbean569 · Post by **Butterbean569** » 2004-09-20 11:19am

Bleh...this sucks. Maybe the non-SE isn't the greatest looking, but it was how Star Wars was made! It's the original! It's what everyone knew and loved!

It's cool to see the SE, but the non-SE has so much more sentimental and collector value.

Think about episodes from Star Trek. Sure, the special effects in TOS were shit...but that's the way it was and that's the way I want to see it! If Paramount went back and replaced all the crappy special effects with good ones, it would just be out of place.

I dunno, maybe I'm too sentimental, but I'm mad that Lucas isn't respecting the classics and just wants re-release "modern" versions.

Wasn't there a South Park episode about this? lol

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-20 06:34pm

Chris OFarrell wrote:*snip*
Persoanly I like most of the SE changes. But I don't see why you can't have BOTH on the same disk.

Agree 100%, and good points above too!

Just saw this on Digitalbits.com (pasted into the second page of their SW Trilogy DVD review as well as the news):

[Editor's Note: since we initially wrote this review, we've detected a number of audio/mixing errors on the DVD version of A New Hope. They are as follows:

1) The familiar Force theme trumpet fanfare that used to play right after Red Leader says: "This is it!" and just as the X-wings start diving towards the Death Star's surface has been dialed back in volume so that it's almost inaudible - it's almost completely buried in the surround mix.

2) The audio quality varies wildly as Tarkin says the line: "You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system." - almost as if the master sound element was damaged. It's very distracting.

3) Possibly most critically, John Williams' entire score for the film has been flipped in the rear channels, so that what should be the left rear channel is playing from the right rear channel (and vise versa). What this means is that the rear channels don't match the front channels - instruments heard from the front right channel come from the left rear instead of the right rear. Again, this is very distracting once you notice it.

These problems are certainly severe enough in our opinion to merit a repressing/exchange of the disc. We're waiting to hear back from Lucasfilm on this issue and we'll update this review with the details as soon as we do.]

Coming Soon: Star Wars Trilogy Special Editon: The Special Edition: SE ("Special Ed Edition"?! ; )

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-09-20 06:51pm

neoolong wrote:Didn't he go back and make more changes to changes he already made?

Like Luke's scream and altering the Solo/Greedo thing? If the special editions are his final vision, why is he messing with things he already "fixed?"

In truth, the "Special Editions" were a trial run of things he wanted to fix. They served to prove that it was possible to actually go back and do things the way he wanted.

The originals were only like a 60-70% completed version of the movies he wanted. The "Special Editions" were about 90% and this DVD release is about 95%. The ultimate final versions with everything done PRECISELY how he wants it will likely be the true High Definition Blue Ray disc release which will probably come sometime within the next 6 years once Blue Ray becomes the standard replacement for DVDs and the true High Definition recording and playback format.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-09-20 08:46pm

Icehawk wrote:
neoolong wrote:Didn't he go back and make more changes to changes he already made?

Like Luke's scream and altering the Solo/Greedo thing? If the special editions are his final vision, why is he messing with things he already "fixed?"
In truth, the "Special Editions" were a trial run of things he wanted to fix. They served to prove that it was possible to actually go back and do things the way he wanted.

The thing is that would be true if he made a bunch of changes in the SE in theaters, and then new changes for the DVD.

But going back and changing stuff he already changed, ignoring improving the effects like Jabba, seems like he just can't make up his mind. Or he actually listens to fans, but doesn't want it to seem that way.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2004-09-20 10:43pm

But going back and changing stuff he already changed, ignoring improving the effects like Jabba, seems like he just can't make up his mind. Or he actually listens to fans, but doesn't want it to seem that way.

Its really not that big of an issue. This should be pretty clear from the fact it is the only thing from the Special Editions that has been completely removed and it was just a recycled piece of audio from ROTJ anyways. Everything else from the Special Editions is their, just in refined form, which pretty much solidifies my point that the Special Editions were a trial run of the changes he wanted.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-20 10:54pm

IIRC, the SE was also a testbed for some of the techniques that would be used in TPM.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-09-21 04:32am

Maybe they can put what they learned in AOTC to use and replace the worst Yoda ever (TPM) with the CG one from AOTC.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2004-09-21 05:36am

For the SE and DVD bashers, did you look at the Empire of Dreams documentary where footage of the unaltered ANH was featured?
The matte-boxes on models was so annoying in DVD clarity.
While the originals was good for me in over twenty years, the SE's (now the DVD's) rocks and outshines the originals that for me no longer exists. I agree with those that want them released on DVD, but I wouldn't buy it.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-21 11:54pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:IIRC, the SE was also a testbed for some of the techniques that would be used in TPM.

Technically, ILM has been "testing" those special effects for the past 20 years in all sorts of films, and I imagine tv shows and video games too. 'THX' has the name recognition too. The SE's were mainly a way for Lucas to get people thinking about Star Wars again and raise a bunch of money on a proven set of hits in preparation for the prequels.

Star Wars is Lucas's one tried and true cash cow. ; )

Lucas just has a habit of revising his original vision, or else he's just a good salesman for his work. ; )

Hey, as one of the "SE bashers" (an unfair label if there ever was one), I'll say this to you, the changes to the trilogy are fine. I don't care. I LIKE the clean ups and fixes to the SFX gaffes. I love that stuff, and I eat it up!

What I (and the other, oh-so evil "bashers") object to are storyline changes, made seemingly for no reason (and the being asked to swallow the "well I meant this way all along and the originals no longer exist", wtf??), like Greedo shooting first, Anakin's ghost being a young man that Luke wouldn't recognize, etc. The other changes are just goofy things that don't add or detract (well some of us would say they definately detract), like "Jedi Rocks," New Age music at the end of the trilogy erasing the Ewok song, the cartoony Jabba scene, extra inserts of Boba Fett everywhere for his fans, and the Little Shop of Horrors mouth on the Sarlacc.

He could have cleaned up the films, removed the matte lines without changing things like he did. So again, it's not such an all or nothing deal, that you're either burning Lucas at the Stake and hating Star Wars, or you're accepting all the changes without complaint.

It's like with any product. You like something about it, and the it gets changed on you. The "old version" is obsolete, and the new version isn't as good as you used to have. You get some good things and some bad things. If I wasn't a Star Wars fan I wouldn't even care one way or the other. This whole thing would be a complete none-issue. So some old movies are on dvd and they are changed, so what?

Mange, at least you have the good sense to see the other point of view, and you don't object to us wanting the originals also released, even if they "no longer exist" for you, like Lucas says.

Lucas is just being a little dishonest with his fans, by insisting that the way he feels now is how he always felt, and there's something wrong with US (the fans) for not knowing that and having to be told. He seems to have either had a communication problem all these years, or else he just has a selective memory. In any cases it just strikes as an insult to our intelligence. In the posted interview he does at least give us some credit, and makes it clear that only his opinion counts, but a little more honestly earlier on could have avoided a lot of this stuff. Unless, as many of us theorize, Lucas just changes his mind a lot, but then, he could just admit it and be done with it. He's not a politician, he can open up a little more...

He just keeps going back on his "word" then claiming the fans are confused, and that gets a little trying.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2004-09-22 12:31am

Actually, there is an archival version of ANH preserved from the original masters. But Lucas doesn't want to release that.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-22 12:44am

The Best Brains also refuse to release the KTMA season of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well, for much the same reason (unpolished, unfinished, they just don't like it anymore), despite the fact that the MSTies have been clamoring for it for years and would pay a lot of money for the KTMA season (and have managed to track down old VHS copies of all but the first three episodes).

It's the creator's right not to release a crappy version of their work. To paraphrase Jim Mallon, it'd be like an actor releasing a video tape of his 6th grade play, or an author releasing his first attempts at writing.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-22 09:21am

Iceberg wrote:The Best Brains also refuse to release the KTMA season of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well, for much the same reason (unpolished, unfinished, they just don't like it anymore), despite the fact that the MSTies have been clamoring for it for years and would pay a lot of money for the KTMA season (and have managed to track down old VHS copies of all but the first three episodes).

It's the creator's right not to release a crappy version of their work. To paraphrase Jim Mallon, it'd be like an actor releasing a video tape of his 6th grade play, or an author releasing his first attempts at writing.

I thought the reason they didn't release the KTMA season was because the movies they riffed on in that season were not obtained properly (ie: they didn't get full permission to use them) and that is the reason they can never be released on home video (though, I wonder why they couldn't just pay the money to obtain permission for those films now... and a good chunk of them WERE used in season 3 after all). Maybe that's just BS, but I read that on one of the bigger fan sites.

As to why they shouldn't release a "crappy" version of their work, well, Lucas thought that "crappy" version of his work was okay to feed us for 20-16 years. And now the SE, which is in its Second Draft (apparently, judging by the flaws people have mentioned are still glaringly obvious in the current DVD editions)...

It's his own fault for saturating the market with the "crappy versions" and allowing the majority of fans to fall in love with them. That he's been able to woo some people into his "original vision" with the 2004 DVD releases as surpassing all others is to his credit as a salesman, but still.

I'll be getting these DVD's because they are the only legal way to get high quality widescreen versions of the trilogy on the best home media format currently available. I won't be getting them for the chance to see Hayden Christiansen as a ghost or to listen to Boba Fett's new accent.

I mean, if the OT was released without the SE modifications and the film was just cleaned up and had the spiffed up audio, what would be wrong with that? It's a nice way for him to sell it I will admit. He won't give us just the fixes, he has to give us the changes too. I wonder though, if he had taken the money he spent on the changes and just used it for fixing, if he could have wiped out so many of the mistakes that we see in the films today. If his real goal was just to fix the sfx glitches you'd think he could have done so by now.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2004-09-22 12:44pm

Iceberg wrote:The Best Brains also refuse to release the KTMA season of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well, for much the same reason (unpolished, unfinished, they just don't like it anymore), despite the fact that the MSTies have been clamoring for it for years and would pay a lot of money for the KTMA season (and have managed to track down old VHS copies of all but the first three episodes).

Also Tomino refuses to let an episode of Mobile Suit Gundam be released, as he doesn't like it. Its said this is the same reason ADV didn't get an episode of Sailor Moon for their box sets.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-09-22 01:01pm

I'm still hanging onto my old bootleg DVDs ripped (legally, mind you) from my THX laserdiscs, because I don't think Lucas is going to change his mind about releasing the originals.

As for his commentary on the new DVDs (which I already bought, of course, minor audio nits be damned), let's not get all theological on this guy for fuck's sake. Yes, he changes his mind over time. Call him a flip-flopper if you want. What do you expect? The story isn't set in stone; as he writes subsequent portions he goes back and revises stuff that he changed his mind about.

That's why it's so comical when anti-EU people rant about how GL doesn't hold himself to the EU. He doesn't even hold himself to the canon, for fuck's sake. To him, it's all a work in progress. And yes, he pretends that he had it all laid out from the beginning and he's just "fixing" it, but everyone has always known that this is bullshit; no human being could possibly plan that far in ahead and with such clarity.

As for whether he's a liar, I don't know about that either. It's been thirty years, and peoples' memories aren't perfect. My mother has certain recollections of my childhood which conflict with mine. Both of us honestly believe we're right, but one of us must be wrong. If he doesn't remember what he was really thinking in 1977, it wouldn't be too hard for him to tell himself that he actually meant it to be the way it is now.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2004-09-22 03:48pm

Kurgan wrote:
Iceberg wrote:The Best Brains also refuse to release the KTMA season of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well, for much the same reason (unpolished, unfinished, they just don't like it anymore), despite the fact that the MSTies have been clamoring for it for years and would pay a lot of money for the KTMA season (and have managed to track down old VHS copies of all but the first three episodes).

It's the creator's right not to release a crappy version of their work. To paraphrase Jim Mallon, it'd be like an actor releasing a video tape of his 6th grade play, or an author releasing his first attempts at writing.
I thought the reason they didn't release the KTMA season was because the movies they riffed on in that season were not obtained properly (ie: they didn't get full permission to use them) and that is the reason they can never be released on home video (though, I wonder why they couldn't just pay the money to obtain permission for those films now... and a good chunk of them WERE used in season 3 after all). Maybe that's just BS, but I read that on one of the bigger fan sites.

That's actually sort of correct. They can't really release the KTMA episodes because they really didn't get the rights for any of the films. It's the Season One episodes that they withdrew from reruns, and currently there's only one Season One episode that's been released on video.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-09-22 03:51pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Iceberg wrote:The Best Brains also refuse to release the KTMA season of Mystery Science Theater 3000 as well, for much the same reason (unpolished, unfinished, they just don't like it anymore), despite the fact that the MSTies have been clamoring for it for years and would pay a lot of money for the KTMA season (and have managed to track down old VHS copies of all but the first three episodes).

It's the creator's right not to release a crappy version of their work. To paraphrase Jim Mallon, it'd be like an actor releasing a video tape of his 6th grade play, or an author releasing his first attempts at writing.
I thought the reason they didn't release the KTMA season was because the movies they riffed on in that season were not obtained properly (ie: they didn't get full permission to use them) and that is the reason they can never be released on home video (though, I wonder why they couldn't just pay the money to obtain permission for those films now... and a good chunk of them WERE used in season 3 after all). Maybe that's just BS, but I read that on one of the bigger fan sites.
That's actually sort of correct. They can't really release the KTMA episodes because they really didn't get the rights for any of the films. It's the Season One episodes that they withdrew from reruns, and currently there's only one Season One episode that's been released on video.

Except for the Gamera movies, though, they could easily enough get the rights to re-release the KTMA episodes if they wanted.

KTMA and Season One were the "experimental" phase of MST3K; the show would not be truly complete until Kevin Murphy stepped into the hoverskirt of Tom Servo in season 2.

It's worth mentioning that none of the original on-air cast was remaining by the end of season 10:

Kevin Murphy replaced Josh Weinstein as Tom Servo (season 2)
Frank Conniff as TV's Frank replaced Josh Weinstein as Dr. Lawrence Earhardt (season 2)
Michael J. Nelson as Mike Nelson replaced Joel Hodgson as Joel Robinson (season 5), marking the end of Joel Hodgson's career as a performer
Frank Conniff (and TV's Frank) left the cast (end of season 6)
Mary Jo Pehl joined the cast as Pearl Forrester (season 7)
Trace Beaulieu (Dr. Clayton Forrester, Crow T. Robot) left the cast (season

Bill Corbett replaced Trace Beaulieu as Crow (season

Patrick Brantseg replaced Jim Mallon as Gypsy (season

Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett first appeared as mads Professor Bobo and The Observer (Brain Guy) (season

.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-09-22 07:19pm

Darth Wong wrote:As for his commentary on the new DVDs (which I already bought, of course, minor audio nits be damned), let's not get all theological on this guy for fuck's sake. Yes, he changes his mind over time. Call him a flip-flopper if you want. What do you expect? The story isn't set in stone; as he writes subsequent portions he goes back and revises stuff that he changed his mind about.

That's why it's so comical when anti-EU people rant about how GL doesn't hold himself to the EU. He doesn't even hold himself to the canon, for fuck's sake. To him, it's all a work in progress. And yes, he pretends that he had it all laid out from the beginning and he's just "fixing" it, but everyone has always known that this is bullshit; no human being could possibly plan that far in ahead and with such clarity.

As for whether he's a liar, I don't know about that either. It's been thirty years, and peoples' memories aren't perfect. My mother has certain recollections of my childhood which conflict with mine. Both of us honestly believe we're right, but one of us must be wrong. If he doesn't remember what he was really thinking in 1977, it wouldn't be too hard for him to tell himself that he actually meant it to be the way it is now.

Can't say I disagree either, well put. Of course in the case of Lucas we have the quotes he made back then, and the quotes he makes now denying those quotes (or the meaning they held). So there is something attached to the memory to support whether it had anything to it.

Now as to what Lucas himself remembers thinking back then, sure, he could be mistaken about his own memories and how would anyone ever know? There's no way to prove that short of reading his mind. Sure.

But the fact that he made those statements in the past should be a clue to him that either 1) he wasn't really thinking that back then OR 2) he was lying to people back then. Neither of which is a pleasant prospect. But he could avoid the whole thing by just saying "this is how I want the story to go now, when I'm older and wiser and I think it works better this way, etc etc." and that's more palatable a reason to his audience, even if he still wants to change the films. It just sounds more honest. Plus it gives a good reason then to release the originals, because they weren't a mistake, just something he's added to over the years.

I can't get into the mind of Lucas. To me it makes perfect sense what he should do. To Lucas, well, who knows. We just have what he says and what he does. This may not be the last chapter in the Star Wars Special Edition Saga... ; )

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-09-22 07:30pm

neoolong wrote:Didn't he go back and make more changes to changes he already made?

Like Luke's scream and altering the Solo/Greedo thing? If the special editions are his final vision, why is he messing with things he already "fixed?"

Because he is an idi
EDIT: I meant to say that he is stu

EDIT: My original message always hes been intended to say that he has an ego the size of

EDIT: He's going senile.

EDIT: He's a big meanie doo-doo head! This is the reply that makes sense and the reply that I have always wanted to write and send. This hasn't offended any children has it?