The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?:

Supreme_Warlord · Post by **Supreme_Warlord** » 2002-07-04 12:25pm

Hi,
I came across a post at a discussion forum recently (can't remember exactly where), that stated that it is now generally accepted (although this is the first I had heard of it) that Senator/Emperor Palpatine militarized the galaxy because he had forseen an invasion (the YV).
I am not very familiar with the EU books, so I do not really know if the YV are more or less murderous than the Empire itself. For the purposes of this post I will assume that they are more ruthless.
Furthermore, another recent discussion I read indicated that the majority think that the Imperial Forces would have done a better job against the YV than the New Republic Forces. If Palpatine had indeed remained in power and hence the full-scale Empire had survived, and assuming all of the above assumptions to be correct, does this now make Palpatine more of an anti-hero (my definition of an anti-hero being someone who is "bad/evil" but whose actions end up being for the common good) than an outright villian? I would say yes.
Any thoughts on this?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-07-04 12:41pm

Supreme_Warlord wrote:and assuming all of the above assumptions to be correct, does this now make Palpatine more of an anti-hero (my definition of an anti-hero being someone who is "bad/evil" but whose actions end up being for the common good) than an outright villian? I would say yes.

Palpatine was a soul-crushing force of evil, regardless of his intentions. Even if the plan was to stop the YV, he still dominated with an iron fist. I think that, had he survived, saving the galaxy from the YV would have balanced out his totalitarian rule.

And the original Empire would have responded immediately to the YV invasion, and kicked their asses. Same for any follow-up waves. Maybe they would even militarize the whole galaxy and take the war to the Vong and exterminate them.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-04 12:55pm

No doubt the Empire would do better against the YV, but I think Palpatine's only reason for militarising the galaxy was to secure his own poower.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2002-07-04 01:20pm

If I were Palpy, I'd allow the Vong to kill an iimportant world and then do a massive counterattack. That way, the galaxy would want revenge. Do we even know where the Vong galaxy is?

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-04 01:43pm

No, the NJO books have never specified where the YV galaxy is.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-07-04 05:29pm

Palpatine was almost pure evil, but I believe his creation was anything but.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2002-07-04 05:31pm

Ah, bugger it.

une · Post by **une** » 2002-07-04 08:30pm

To tell the truth I doubt it. He was just evil and wanted power.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-04 11:54pm

Yeah, the Empire wqas a necessity, Palpatine and the people he put in charge made it bad.

Meghel · Post by **Meghel** » 2002-07-05 10:58am

Supreme_Warlord wrote: I am not very familiar with the EU books, so I do not really know if the YV are more or less murderous than the Empire itself. For the purposes of this post I will assume that they are more ruthless.

Well, Palpatine will have you killed because he wants power. He will kill everyone who is opposed to him. He will kill those who he feel are a threat.
He kills because he cares for teh power over beings.

The YV just kill everything, since they consider them "infidels", who are lower lifeforms then bacteria. The YV do not care about any being other then their own race.

So I would rate the YV as more evil then the Emperor.

Sure, the Emperor would kill you to make an example and because you opposed him. The YV would just kill you without thought.

To bad the Empire was destroyed. I would love the look on a Yuzhang Vongs face when half the Imperial Armade attacks them.... There is nothing above ten SSD's to kill your day

meghel

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-05 07:48pm

In the the span of five years the Empire built 2 Death Stars. Just think what they could have done in the next 25-30 years.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-05 08:14pm

Acutal David thats easy

Two Words
Sun-Crusher

You have an near invinble, very small ship capble of destroying entire Systems

Realy how much bigger of a gun do you need?

I can make starts exploded at will

I can kill any ship in space(Read, RAMMING! Remeber invicible!

)

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-05 08:43pm

What I mean is if the Empire were still entact. The sun crusher was a leap in technology, but if the Maw could produce one with a limited amount of resources, what could a whole Empire do?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-05 08:45pm

A realy real big one?

No David I'm making the point after you've made the Invisible ship what else do you want to do?

Make the even MORE invisible ship?

The Galaxy killing Lasier?

The SYSTEM sized Space station?

Black Hole Gun?(Man portable! Only one shot cause you don't get a second)

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-05 08:48pm

The Ultimate Woopie Cushin 5000!!!!

The Emporer's stink will destroy them all!

General G · Post by **General G** » 2002-07-05 10:06pm

Well you could compare the Galactic Empire to the Imperium of Man from 40k. The Imperium is quite a harsh goverment as well the Inquistion has the power to wipe out entire planets and countless millions are conscripited into the Navy and Imperial Guard but if they were a nice friendly goverment anyone who knows anything about 40k knows that Chaos/Tau/Tyrinids/some other destrucitve alien race would have wiped out humanity. The methods of the Imperium are brutal but they are nessisary for the survival of humanity.

The Galactic Empire and palpitine no matter how evil he might have been were what were nessesary and without them look what happened a enemy comes along and the New Republic is incapable of defending itself while the empire would have been capable of not only driving back the vong but even invadeing the vong galaxy themselfs. While i seem to have forgotten how i was going to end this i'll just say palpatine was a nesessary evil that would have prevented a lot more destrucion than it caused.

David · Post by **David** » 2002-07-05 11:04pm

You might be right, but we'll not truely know until Ep3 comes out how bad the Clone Wars were.

Try breaking your sentences up. They are difficult to read when they are a paragraph long.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-13 08:26pm

Supreme_Warlord wrote:Hi,
I came across a post at a discussion forum recently (can't remember exactly where), that stated that it is now generally accepted (although this is the first I had heard of it) that Senator/Emperor Palpatine militarized the galaxy because he had forseen an invasion (the YV).
<snip>

In all the discussion, you guys forgot one VERY important thing
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Welcome, stoat!
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POKE

[/b]

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-13 09:43pm

FYI, the Yuuzhan Galaxy is far, far away from the SW Galaxy...IIRC, Chiss scientists discovered the the Yuuzhan Vong had had to travel for almost thirty years in order to reach the SW Galaxy. So invading it would be impractical because 1) it's too damn far away with no strategic value and 2) there might not be a lot of Vong left there to get revenge on, since it appears that basically the entire race has come with the intent of making the SW Galaxy it's new home.

BTW, it's not that the Republic was incapable of defending itself from the invading Yuuzhan Vong, it's just that it didn't (damn Bothans); the New Republic military forces (at least the competent Rebels) are more than capable of dealing with the less useful organic warfare technology of the YZ, as evidenced by the stunning victories of recent NJO novels.

And it can't be denied, whether the consequences of his actions were positive or negative, that Palpatine is evil to the core. He's in it for his own selfish self-gratification. In a way, though, he's at least honest; Palpatine doesn't spout any of the false pretenses that we hear from so many Imperial bullshit-artists about bringing stability to the Galaxy or protecting life. He's in it to dominate and control life, and he doesn't pretend not to be.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-13 09:43pm

Supreme_Warlord wrote:Hi,
I came across a post at a discussion forum recently (can't remember exactly where), that stated that it is now generally accepted (although this is the first I had heard of it) that Senator/Emperor Palpatine militarized the galaxy because he had forseen an invasion (the YV).
I am not very familiar with the EU books, so I do not really know if the YV are more or less murderous than the Empire itself. For the purposes of this post I will assume that they are more ruthless.
Furthermore, another recent discussion I read indicated that the majority think that the Imperial Forces would have done a better job against the YV than the New Republic Forces. If Palpatine had indeed remained in power and hence the full-scale Empire had survived, and assuming all of the above assumptions to be correct, does this now make Palpatine more of an anti-hero (my definition of an anti-hero being someone who is "bad/evil" but whose actions end up being for the common good) than an outright villian? I would say yes.
Any thoughts on this?

I don't understand why Palpatine would go through so much trouble starting up the Clone Wars when he could have just sent military scouting forces out to identify the YV and then make it known to the Senate so that he would get more power to deal with the threat that way. He could have easily done this. All he had to do was send the Republic's most symbolic ships and record their destruction as the YV would surely destroy them at first site of technology. It just doesn't make sense why he would go through all of that trouble. Unless he wanted to eliminate all of the Jedi first. But it still doesn't make sense, because he would have done what I said about finding the YV after he made his great Jedi purge in the OT. We hear nothing about this in the OT. So I don't buy this concept. IMO, it's just a way of Empire fans to justify the uber-cool Imperial military.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-11-13 11:10pm

The Empire being able to kick the shit out of th Vong is just a side effect of Palpatine's power-hungry-ness militarizing the galaxy.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-14 02:34am

Palpatine would have to secure control of the Republic before attempting to move against the YV, to prevent the sort of self-serving factionalism that would have occured under the OR if such a threat appeared. Take the NR reaction, and give it the weight of thousands of years of petty bullshit and feuds, and you'd have some idea of what he would be working against.

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The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?:

The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?:

Re: The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?:

Re: The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?:

Re: The [b]evil[/b] Emperor Palpatine :?: