Somebody finally gets it!!!

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2002-11-13 02:39pm

Check this out:
http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/38/clones1.htm

They are smart people in the world.
It may be a little over the top, but the writer means well.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-13 02:41pm

Insightful and well-written.

*thumbs-up*

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-13 03:01pm

"This is presumably the explanation for the controversial "Greedo edit" in the special edition of the first film. By altering the confrontation between Greedo and Han Solo in A New Hope to show Greedo firing first, Lucas eliminated the inconsistency between this particular conflict and the overarching theme of the film as a whole." - a footnote

Maybe Greedo shooting first wasn't such a bad idea after all...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-13 03:09pm

Nice...but doesn't make think of it as average...but better than some stuff I've seen written.

As for Greedo shooting first...still dumb mostly because he's trying to suspend some belief a little too far to make one think that Solo's colors do not indicate Black and White do not show he has some persay evil impulses.

Honestly I mean Lucas put Luke in White, Darth in Black...and Solo in both,....and yet he ignores this to make it more friendly.

Aaron2 · Post by **Aaron2** » 2002-11-13 03:59pm

Durran Korr wrote:Maybe Greedo shooting first wasn't such a bad idea after all...

No. Han not shooting first completely removes the impact of his heroic return to save Luke's bacon. He's no longer a bad-guy-turned-good, he's a good-guy-who-stays-good.

Aaron

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-11-13 04:28pm

Aaron2 wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Maybe Greedo shooting first wasn't such a bad idea after all...
No. Han not shooting first completely removes the impact of his heroic return to save Luke's bacon. He's no longer a bad-guy-turned-good, he's a good-guy-who-stays-good.

Aaron

So you would rather have a predictible "twist" then an overall connecting theme throughout all the movies?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-13 05:10pm

Ender wrote:So you would rather have a predictible "twist" then an overall connecting theme throughout all the movies?

In this case, yes. I think watching Han's transition from rough-edged smuggler to freedom fighter was very well done, and could make for a story of its own.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-13 07:50pm

IG-88E wrote:
Ender wrote:So you would rather have a predictible "twist" then an overall connecting theme throughout all the movies?
In this case, yes. I think watching Han's transition from rough-edged smuggler to freedom fighter was very well done, and could make for a story of its own.

I agree. Han was always portrayed as a sort of wild card, someone who would usually do the right thing, but not always (particularly if you read the Han Solo trilogy). He's a smuggler and ex-gunslinger, he wouldn't have let Greedo shoot first. It goes against the portrayal of the character in earlier canon and official sources. I prefer the "predictable 'twist'" to having it be a clean dividing line between good and evil. Real life is not that easy, movies shouldn't automatically be like that either.

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2002-11-15 01:53am

I guess I'm one of the few that didn't have a problem with Greedo shooting first.

Look folks, its a bar. Bars like that tend to attract trouble. Greedo came to take Han, one way or another, to collect the bounty on his head. Greedo just happened to get a shot off, and Han nailed him with his first. Tell me how that changes things, because I'm dying to hear it. It was SELF-DEFENSE. It doesn't make him any less bad, or any more good. If anything, it makes him look more like a merc than anything else. He had no qualms about filling Greedo full of holes (figuratively of course), and intended to get out of that bar in one piece. What's there to argue about?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-15 02:44am

Vertigo1 wrote:I guess I'm one of the few that didn't have a problem with Greedo shooting first.

Look folks, its a bar. Bars like that tend to attract trouble. Greedo came to take Han, one way or another, to collect the bounty on his head. Greedo just happened to get a shot off, and Han nailed him with his first. Tell me how that changes things, because I'm dying to hear it. It was SELF-DEFENSE. It doesn't make him any less bad, or any more good. If anything, it makes him look more like a merc than anything else. He had no qualms about filling Greedo full of holes (figuratively of course), and intended to get out of that bar in one piece. What's there to argue about?

Originally he deceived Greedo into thinking that he was going along with him, then snuck his blaster out under cover of the table and shot Greedo without warning. Now he was fired on first and only returned fire in self-defense. It does make him look better, since before he took the smuggler's way and escaped through a dirty trick, whereas this time he took the prudent independent spacer's way and returned fire. Besides, Solo was a gunslinger. He wasn't shy about using his gun before ANH, why would he suddenly be gunshy in the Cantina?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-15 02:57am

The amusing thing? I interperated Han's delaying to be 'Okay.. Go ahead.. You go first, THEN I'll kill you..'. The ultimate in insulting moves, like when you tell the guy whose trying to block you exactly how you'll score the goal, then you do it and beat him out.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-15 02:58am

SirNitram wrote:The amusing thing? I interperated Han's delaying to be 'Okay.. Go ahead.. You go first, THEN I'll kill you..'. The ultimate in insulting moves, like when you tell the guy whose trying to block you exactly how you'll score the goal, then you do it and beat him out.

OK, I'd never thought of it that way. I can accept that, he's cocky enough to do it. Sorta like Babe Ruth and the infamous point.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-11-15 03:00am

The Dark wrote:
SirNitram wrote:The amusing thing? I interperated Han's delaying to be 'Okay.. Go ahead.. You go first, THEN I'll kill you..'. The ultimate in insulting moves, like when you tell the guy whose trying to block you exactly how you'll score the goal, then you do it and beat him out.
OK, I'd never thought of it that way. I can accept that, he's cocky enough to do it. Sorta like Babe Ruth and the infamous point.

Exactly. He's so sure of himself he can let the other guy shoot. And it's not like his hands are clean: He blows Greedo away in what, one shot? He had time to switch to stun, if he was a GOOD guy.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 03:03am

SirNitram wrote:
The Dark wrote:
SirNitram wrote:The amusing thing? I interperated Han's delaying to be 'Okay.. Go ahead.. You go first, THEN I'll kill you..'. The ultimate in insulting moves, like when you tell the guy whose trying to block you exactly how you'll score the goal, then you do it and beat him out.
OK, I'd never thought of it that way. I can accept that, he's cocky enough to do it. Sorta like Babe Ruth and the infamous point.
Exactly. He's so sure of himself he can let the other guy shoot. And it's not like his hands are clean: He blows Greedo away in what, one shot? He had time to switch to stun, if he was a GOOD guy.

Uh, did his particular weapon have a stun setting?

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2002-11-15 07:22am

I still think it was mistake to change it to have Greedo shoot first. Just because Han shoots him without warning, it does not make Han's action any less justifiable or less moral. Greedo had already drawn down on Han. Moreover, his words made it crystal clear he intended to shoot Han, then carry the corpse back to Jabba to collect the bounty. There is absolutely no doubt that Greedo had the means, the motive, and what's more, the full intention to kill him - cold blooded murder for profit. How is Han obligated in any way to wait for Greedo to shoot first in order to maintain the moral high ground?

I'm a cop. If I shoot someone who has a gun drawn, and intends to use it, I am justified. It will be upheld as a righteous shooting. I am under absolutely no obligation whatsoever to let him shoot first. The same goes for a citizen who shoots someone under similar circumstances. You don't have to hand someone an opportunity to snuff you out to prove you are justified; his drawn weapon is enough. This revision of the shooting is a symptom of that moral squeamishness that is pervading society these days. It's possible to be a little too reluctant to use violence.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-15 08:47am

Perinquus wrote:I still think it was mistake to change it to have Greedo shoot first. Just because Han shoots him without warning, it does not make Han's action any less justifiable or less moral. Greedo had already drawn down on Han. Moreover, his words made it crystal clear he intended to shoot Han, then carry the corpse back to Jabba to collect the bounty. There is absolutely no doubt that Greedo had the means, the motive, and what's more, the full intention to kill him - cold blooded murder for profit. How is Han obligated in any way to wait for Greedo to shoot first in order to maintain the moral high ground?

I've got agree with that, I have no doubt that Greedo would have whacked Han. He was going to kill him and Hn just got the drop on him. It was just stupid to have Greedo shoot first just to make Han look even better.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-15 01:14pm

If I have to choose between me and some other guy. I choose me. I ain't waiting for some guy to shoot me first before I kill him.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-17 08:28am

Solo is sure of himself, but not enough to let someone sitting across a table take a shot at his head. That more like...suicide.