Did Jedi Academy Game influce RotS Duels?

[Oskuro]

Technically, Yoda's "hand-absorb" feat is the very same than the force absorb from the game, but without the tell-tale blue aura. And, in essence, what Yoda is doing is using the power from the lightning to throw it back at the attacker, that would be the same than using the "mana" you are adquiring through absorb to cast your own lightning on the opponent.

Unfortunately, you can't mix light and dark powers in MP, but you can in SP.

As for never having enviromental damage in the games... False. In Jedi Academy, on the mission to Vader's Castle in Vjunn, Kyle and Jaden come out into an acid rain.... And Kyle, instantly, activates his Force Protection and just moves around worry-free, while Jaden, if you haven't picked that power, has to run like hell. (Although I managed to complete it, it can get quite desperating when playing on Jedi Master -max 50hp- and being a Dark Side purist: no Force Heal)


Now, about JK influencing the movies, on the Hyperspace documentaries, there's this time when Lucas walks into a room and hands out the first draft, and he says "I've cheated, it's full of [i]"...and they fight"[/i] scenes" wich leads me to think that the fight choreographies were probably developed entirely by other people, and these people had probably played JK, or knew about it. After all, the movies are not set to stone until they come out (and even not then *cough* special edition *cough*), and being as they are a collaborative effort, many influences come into play.

BTW, I hate the different glows and distortion effects given to the force powers in the games. What's with the red glow on the grip?! Oh well...

[NecronLord]

BTW, I hate the different glows and distortion effects given to the force powers in the games. What's with the red glow on the grip?! Oh well...

Chances are, they're not visibly there in universe, but a visual representation for the OOC player of the data a character would get from the force. The best example would be MotS, with farsight. There's an object that flies aroud with the user's view, but the AIs cannot see it unless you ram it into them (when they react as if touched, rather like tapping them on the shoulder telekinetically to distract them.). However, you can. Chances are this is because you are a force user and can sense another force user's influence, but they can't. (in general)

[Kurgan]

As for never having enviromental damage in the games... False. In Jedi Academy, on the mission to Vader's Castle in Vjunn, Kyle and Jaden come out into an acid rain.... And Kyle, instantly, activates his Force Protection and just moves around worry-free, while Jaden, if you haven't picked that power, has to run like hell. (Although I managed to complete it, it can get quite desperating when playing on Jedi Master -max 50hp- and being a Dark Side purist: no Force Heal)

Yeah and Dark Forces has that level with the "poison gas." I was referring to the prevelant lava pools you can come within inches of with no ill effects, not even shield interaction (only if you dive in... then you just die instantly).

Now, about JK influencing the movies, on the Hyperspace documentaries, there's this time when Lucas walks into a room and hands out the first draft, and he says "I've cheated, it's full of "...and they fight" scenes"

Ah, just like Shakespear. Well I'm not surprised that he had fight choreographers, I wouldn't expect him to script every move made. Even the novels don't go into that much detail usually.

wich leads me to think that the fight choreographies were probably developed entirely by other people, and these people had probably played JK, or knew about it.

I think I read (or heard on one of those documentaries) that Nick Gilliard is a big video game fan (or at least said so to look good in the interview).

That doesn't mean they copied the games... rather I think the games copied the movies. That's my theory.

BTW, I hate the different glows and distortion effects given to the force powers in the games. What's with the red glow on the grip?! Oh well...

It's because the games aren't movies. They're made this way to make it easy for you to see what power you're using and in MP to see what power others are using so you can counter them. It's the same reason we have HUDs and arrows and things in sports games. Those aren't "realistic" either, but they're there because you're playing a video game.

It's funny because first person view in many of these games are actually more realistic, but people demand third person because it's "more like the movies." I never had a problem with the JK games not being identical facsimilies of the films. Close enough and lots of fun.

Sides, plenty of fanboy mod makers have removed all Force special effects, so they're just hand waving and sound effects. I just love the grip's floating phantom RED HAND OF DOOM!

[Kurgan]

BTW, I hate the different glows and distortion effects given to the force powers in the games. What's with the red glow on the grip?! Oh well...

Chances are, they're not visibly there in universe, but a visual representation for the OOC player of the data a character would get from the force. The best example would be MotS, with farsight. There's an object that flies aroud with the user's view, but the AIs cannot see it unless you ram it into them (when they react as if touched, rather like tapping them on the shoulder telekinetically to distract them.). However, you can. Chances are this is because you are a force user and can sense another force user's influence, but they can't. (in general)

A nice theory, but it doesn't work because in MP others can see the force effects (of course the Force effects in MP are really toned down compared to the flashy effects in SP... especially Jedi Academy's SP). And even non-Jedi can see the effects too.

[Lord Revan]

BTW, I hate the different glows and distortion effects given to the force powers in the games. What's with the red glow on the grip?! Oh well...

Chances are, they're not visibly there in universe, but a visual representation for the OOC player of the data a character would get from the force. The best example would be MotS, with farsight. There's an object that flies aroud with the user's view, but the AIs cannot see it unless you ram it into them (when they react as if touched, rather like tapping them on the shoulder telekinetically to distract them.). However, you can. Chances are this is because you are a force user and can sense another force user's influence, but they can't. (in general)

A nice theory, but it doesn't work because in MP others can see the force effects (of course the Force effects in MP are really toned down compared to the flashy effects in SP... especially Jedi Academy's SP). And even non-Jedi can see the effects too.

that could due to engine limitation and there's everybody to see Force effects in MP(basically it's game meachanics in MP, but nesserly in SP))

[Kurgan]

Chances are, they're not visibly there in universe, but a visual representation for the OOC player of the data a character would get from the force. The best example would be MotS, with farsight. There's an object that flies aroud with the user's view, but the AIs cannot see it unless you ram it into them (when they react as if touched, rather like tapping them on the shoulder telekinetically to distract them.). However, you can. Chances are this is because you are a force user and can sense another force user's influence, but they can't. (in general)

A nice theory, but it doesn't work because in MP others can see the force effects (of course the Force effects in MP are really toned down compared to the flashy effects in SP... especially Jedi Academy's SP). And even non-Jedi can see the effects too.

that could due to engine limitation and there's everybody to see Force effects in MP(basically it's game meachanics in MP, but nesserly in SP))

It's not engine limitation, because they can make force powers only viewable on certain people's screens (see Absorb and Mind Trick) at certain times. Force Seeing ("Sense") also works only for the person casting it. In SP we don't know what these AI are seeing during gameplay (unless we cheat) so it doesn't matter, sure.

[Lord Revan]

It's not engine limitation, because they can make force powers only viewable on certain people's screens (see Absorb and Mind Trick) at certain times. Force Seeing ("Sense") also works only for the person casting it. In SP we don't know what these AI are seeing during gameplay (unless we cheat) so it doesn't matter, sure.

the fact is that told in "Medstar" dualogy that there's no real sensor analogy for the way a Jedi feel the Force, but you will onew for game so that you can see that the Force push you tried did hit but it was blocked (for example).

[Pcm979]

Just on a side note, at the time I figured the InstaSmash window was due to pressure differences between the inside and outside; The Chancellor's office is hella high up after all.

[Lord Revan]

Just on a side note, at the time I figured the InstaSmash window was due to pressure differences between the inside and outside; The Chancellor's office is hella high up after all.

it could also safety feature, so if the window would break for what ever reason it would shatter and not leave any sharp edges were can cutt yourself.

[Noble Ire]

Just on a side note, at the time I figured the InstaSmash window was due to pressure differences between the inside and outside; The Chancellor's office is hella high up after all.

it could also safety feature, so if the window would break for what ever reason it would shatter and not leave any sharp edges were can cutt yourself.

Its odd though. You would expect the window in Chancellor's Office to be, well, secure. I mean, you dont want anyone to be able to snipe him from beyond the window, and have the glass just shatter. At least have a shield generator there or something. Although I suppose there might have been one placed outside, away fromn the window. And there is mention in LOE of a shield generator hidden in Palpy's chair. Still strange though.

[Cykeisme]

Yeah and Dark Forces has that level with the "poison gas."

Ah yeah, in the waste disposal facilities within the underworks of the Imperial base on Anteevy. Nasty gas.. you need to use the gas mask for it.
Great stuff, having situations like that. Too bad they kinda "dumbed down" the inventory for the subsequent games, culminating in Jedi Academy with no equipment inventory.

I was referring to the prevelant lava pools you can come within inches of with no ill effects, not even shield interaction (only if you dive in... then you just die instantly).

You don't die instantly when you step in some lava pools. Like the big lava lake on the Taspir base.. the one filled with buttloads of Hazard Troopers. You can dip your feet in it for a moment, which hurts like hell, but is survivable.
Still, no radiated or convected heat whatsoever, lol.

Just on a side note, at the time I figured the InstaSmash window was due to pressure differences between the inside and outside; The Chancellor's office is hella high up after all.

Logical enough.
But it still made us all think of Jedi Academy

[Solauren]

I believe that Haden played Jedi Academy and like it so much, when they were figuring out the duels, he said "Hey, I know where to find some cool stuff"

[Pcm979]

Just on a side note, at the time I figured the InstaSmash window was due to pressure differences between the inside and outside; The Chancellor's office is hella high up after all.

it could also safety feature, so if the window would break for what ever reason it would shatter and not leave any sharp edges were can cutt yourself.

Its odd though. You would expect the window in Chancellor's Office to be, well, secure. I mean, you dont want anyone to be able to snipe him from beyond the window, and have the glass just shatter. At least have a shield generator there or something. Although I suppose there might have been one placed outside, away fromn the window. And there is mention in LOE of a shield generator hidden in Palpy's chair. Still strange though.

Idea! Maybe it had a force field like Padme's; Notice that Padme's shield shut down when Obi jumped through it. Safety feature?

[Oskuro]

On Force "glows" in the game:

Yes, I know they are there for balance, to give a visual cue to players as to what's going on. Even when I like realism, sometimes you must give in to things such as huds, glows, or third-person-camera to compensate for the fact you are not in the game using all your senses and feeling where your body is going. But a nice toggle to turn this stuff on and off (much like the 3rd person camera) would be nice.

The reason I don't like the glows is because it often reminds me of stuff like supershadow's force fireballs, avalanches, earthquakes.... *shudder*. Vader did not need a red glow to make his grip look cool, neither did yoda need those white clouds to make his push look powerful. It's all subtle, yet powerful.

Anyway, hardly the issue at hand.


About the enviromental hazards:

Yes, the Lava does not damage you because of enviromental heat. Level designer's mistake. I just pointed out that there was an example of enviromental hazard in the game (the acid rain) and an use of the force to counter it. Maybe the Taspir base had permanent heat-shields on the lava pools?


And about movie-game inspiration:

Jedi Academy came out after Clone Wars, and it was clearly inspired by it. But it stands to reason that in the making of RotS, the filmmakers took interesting elements from Star Wars material, including the games, and incorporated them into the movies, both because they might look cool, and to make the whole universe more solid. Same with some moves from Outcast making it into AotC.

And, as an aside, even when the engine might not be perfect, videogames like Jedi Knight are the closest to a lightsaber simulation, as well as other games like TIE-Fighter/X-Wing Series were space combat simulations. Regardless of inaccuracies, these simulations offer an unique workbench in wich to test how the Star Wars universe works out. Regarding JK, you can get an interesting grip on how lightsaber combat really feels, and get many interesting ideas out of it. Also, you can verify how some never-seen-on-screen tactics actually work better (because of common sense and all), like the infamous grip-toss-into-chasm, or imaginative use of different weapons.

[Kurgan]

You don't die instantly when you step in some lava pools. Like the big lava lake on the Taspir base.. the one filled with buttloads of Hazard Troopers. You can dip your feet in it for a moment, which hurts like hell, but is survivable.
Still, no radiated or convected heat whatsoever, lol.

I forgot to jump into that patch of lava I guess! Good points about the inventory though.

[Kurgan]

The reason I don't like the glows is because it often reminds me of stuff like supershadow's force fireballs, avalanches, earthquakes.... *shudder*. Vader did not need a red glow to make his grip look cool, neither did yoda need those white clouds to make his push look powerful. It's all subtle, yet powerful.

Then again, while SS's stuff is annoying, many of those "powers" actually came from the Expanded Universe. JK1 had Force Destruction back in late '97, and Splinter of the Mind's Eye had Vader throwing a blue energy ball at Luke before ESB. Causing "avalanches" is just like making stuff crumble and fall on your enemy (like Dooku perhaps?). So some of that stuff isn't too crazy, like it or not.

And about movie-game inspiration:

Jedi Academy came out after Clone Wars, and it was clearly inspired by it. But it stands to reason that in the making of RotS, the filmmakers took interesting elements from Star Wars material, including the games, and incorporated them into the movies, both because they might look cool, and to make the whole universe more solid. Same with some moves from Outcast making it into AotC.

Actually JA came out in September. Clone Wars came out in November.


I figure Lucas allows the EU to make money and to test out ideas sure. He incorporates some of them into his "grand vison" and the rest he freely ignores when it suites him. That's just the privelage of being the Flanneled One.

[Cykeisme]

I figure Lucas allows the EU to make money and to test out ideas sure. He incorporates some of them into his "grand vison" and the rest he freely ignores when it suites him. That's just the privelage of being the Flanneled One.

An approach that has worked out well enough, imo.


As an side, I think Force users of both sides have some sort of passive defensive ability against enemy TK.
That's the reason we don't see that much gripping and pushing.. except for poor Obi-Wan, who lost his concentration and got pushed into a shaft by Maul, and was overpowered by Tyranus' Force techniques/experience.