Taking Out Pro-Imperial Trash

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-24 10:12pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:What rank did Pallaeon start out as?

Ensign, IIRC. He remained such for several generations. The weak and stupid are allowed to lax while the strong and intelligent excel.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-24 10:13pm

However, did he attend the Academy or was he enlisted or what?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-24 10:14pm

Durran Korr wrote:If anything, the Vong have held off on the Remnant because they have a greater degree of respect for the Imperial way of life (still heretics, just not as much as the NR). It's clear that if the Vong were to manage to take over the Galaxy completely in the end, the Remnant wouldn't last long at all.

The Vong ignored them because it was expedient to do so. They know from infiltrators they're reluctant to side with the NR, and the Vong aren't in need of a two-front war. The Remnant is 8 sectors. They're irrelevent.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-24 10:17pm

He did attend the academy.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-24 10:18pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:If anything, the Vong have held off on the Remnant because they have a greater degree of respect for the Imperial way of life (still heretics, just not as much as the NR). It's clear that if the Vong were to manage to take over the Galaxy completely in the end, the Remnant wouldn't last long at all.
The Vong ignored them because it was expedient to do so. They know from infiltrators they're reluctant to side with the NR, and the Vong aren't in need of a two-front war. The Remnant is 8 sectors. They're irrelevent.

Another reason I don't think the Remnant will make a particularly huge difference should they ultimately side with the NR. In Destiny's Way, Leia did not seem very interested in acquiring the aid of the Remnant.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-24 10:19pm

I agree, but they'll probably eventually be incorperated into the new galactic government. I don't think they'll join right now Shep, Jesus.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-24 10:25pm

Ok if he attended the Academy and there were graduates already captains, and it took him FORTY YEARS to gain the status of captain while he could have FORTY YEARS before, then yeah he's a loser.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-24 10:27pm

The description of Force Heretic: Remnant states that Luke and Mara are going to bring the last of the Empire into the light. A vague warning to be sure, but I think it indicates that the Remnant will be undergoing more than a simple alliance with the NR.

In Dark Tide II, a young Moff named Saretti seemed to be gaining influence within the Remnant. He has a much more liberal attitude towards the New Republic. It was also indicated that Saretti is Pellaeon's preferred heir.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-24 10:38pm

Durran Korr wrote:The description of Force Heretic: Remnant states that Luke and Mara are going to bring the last of the Empire into the light. A vague warning to be sure, but I think it indicates that the Remnant will be undergoing more than a simple alliance with the NR.

In Dark Tide II, a young Moff named Saretti seemed to be gaining influence within the Remnant. He has a much more liberal attitude towards the New Republic. It was also indicated that Saretti is Pellaeon's preferred heir.

Saretti, eh? Unusual Star Wars name. Seems a little familiar for a Star Wars name... Well, I guess when Pallaeon croaks, Mafia--err--Moff Saretti will probably name himself consigliere--uhh--Emperor of the Imperial family--err--Remnant and start making hits on--uhm--attacking the Vong in conjunction with New Republic hitmen--ehh--forces.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-24 11:06pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: The Empire's record: implodes into the command of numerous incompetants because it could only work when one particular man was ruling it until it is rebuilt by an incompetant officer who took more than 40 years to get promoted to line captain while other officers were line captains fresh from the academy.

Actually, Pellaeon is competent - what, didn't you read the opening
scene of the Zahn Trilogy? People live a hell of a lot longer in the SW
galaxy, and 40 years to make line captain is actually quite fast.....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-24 11:07pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: The Vong ignored them because it was expedient to do so. They know from infiltrators they're reluctant to side with the NR, and the Vong aren't in need of a two-front war. The Remnant is 8 sectors. They're irrelevent.

The Remnant also controls the 250 sectors that Thrawn conquered.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-24 11:14pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: The Vong ignored them because it was expedient to do so. They know from infiltrators they're reluctant to side with the NR, and the Vong aren't in need of a two-front war. The Remnant is 8 sectors. They're irrelevent.
The Remnant also controls the 250 sectors that Thrawn conquered.

No the Chiss control them. Destiny's Way and Vision of the Future made that quite clear. Why would Leia and Han be attempting to bring in the Empire against the Vong when the Chiss are already actively fighting them and developing a bio weapon against them? The two are separate.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-24 11:17pm

SirNitram wrote: The Imperial Remnant is also an Empire, so citizens don't get a say.. What else...

It's quite obvious you have never even glanced at Machiavelli. Sure, it works
to be the brutal dictator, but you have to give the appearance that you do
care about public opinion.

Lets review the list of people who said "Fuck it all" to public opinion:

You have the French King who got toppled in the French Revolution and
went to the Gullotine, then you've got the Russian Czardom, and finally,
the Romanian dictator Ceausescu, who got shot on Christmas Day 1989
after an amazingly short trial.

Oh yea.. While the only encounter between Imperial and Vong forces was basically a beat down, you forget the Vong outnumber the Remnant. By alot. Fucking idiot.

Oh, and how many Mon Cal Cruisers are there? We know the
Remnant has at minimum eight sector fleets, each fleet having
more firepower than a single NR fleet, of which there are only five.

Gotta love how the Remnant kept those archaic symbols of Imperial
Might, the 200 ISDs....compared to the NR who went on a spree
of liquidating perfectly good ships because they were too 'warlike'.

Add in the 250 sectors Thrawn conquered...and well, the IR is
in pretty good shape, compared to the NR at this point.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-11-24 11:18pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: No the Chiss control them. Destiny's Way and Vision of the Future made that quite clear. Why would Leia and Han be attempting to bring in the Empire against the Vong when the Chiss are already actively fighting them and developing a bio weapon against them? The two are separate.

I haven't kept up on my EU novels after the Zahn Duology...my mistake...

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-11-24 11:38pm

MKSheppard wrote:It's quite obvious you have never even glanced at Machiavelli. Sure, it works
to be the brutal dictator, but you have to give the appearance that you do
care about public opinion.

Lets review the list of people who said "Fuck it all" to public opinion:

You have the French King who got toppled in the French Revolution and
went to the Gullotine, then you've got the Russian Czardom, and finally,
the Romanian dictator Ceausescu, who got shot on Christmas Day 1989
after an amazingly short trial.

You can add Palpatine to that list. Look what it took to get rid of him. Pallaeon could afford to be a ruthless dictator if he wanted to be one.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-25 12:12am

MKSheppard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: The Empire's record: implodes into the command of numerous incompetants because it could only work when one particular man was ruling it until it is rebuilt by an incompetant officer who took more than 40 years to get promoted to line captain while other officers were line captains fresh from the academy.
Actually, Pellaeon is competent - what, didn't you read the opening
scene of the Zahn Trilogy? People live a hell of a lot longer in the SW
galaxy, and 40 years to make line captain is actually quite fast.....

Ignorance.

All other observed line captains were far younger. All observed high admirals were even younger. Your claims aren't supported.

MKSheppard wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: The Vong ignored them because it was expedient to do so. They know from infiltrators they're reluctant to side with the NR, and the Vong aren't in need of a two-front war. The Remnant is 8 sectors. They're irrelevent.
The Remnant also controls the 250 sectors that Thrawn conquered.

Read the HoT? They never surrendered those sectors to the Remnant. They're still controlled by the Chiss paramilitary fanatics.

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote: The Imperial Remnant is also an Empire, so citizens don't get a say.. What else...
It's quite obvious you have never even glanced at Machiavelli. Sure, it works
to be the brutal dictator, but you have to give the appearance that you do
care about public opinion.

Lets review the list of people who said "Fuck it all" to public opinion:

You have the French King who got toppled in the French Revolution and
went to the Gullotine, then you've got the Russian Czardom, and finally,
the Romanian dictator Ceausescu, who got shot on Christmas Day 1989
after an amazingly short trial.

You're an idiot. Remember what happened to the thousands of protesters on Coruscant?

Automatic.

E-11.

Blasterfire.

Oh, and how many Mon Cal Cruisers are there? We know the
Remnant has at minimum eight sector fleets, each fleet having
more firepower than a single NR fleet, of which there are only five.

Gotta love how the Remnant kept those archaic symbols of Imperial
Might, the 200 ISDs....compared to the NR who went on a spree
of liquidating perfectly good ships because they were too 'warlike'.

Add in the 250 sectors Thrawn conquered...and well, the IR is
in pretty good shape, compared to the NR at this point.

THE FUCKING THRAWNIST SECTORS ARE NOT PART OF THE REMNANT.

The New Republic vastly outnumbered and outpowered the Imperial Remnant. Pelleaon made it damn clear that there was nothing the Empire could do to stave off the power of the Republic. Keep in mind, each of those 5 fleets were assault fleets during the Republic's lowest point after Onderon. They've expanded dramatically and they nationalize local defense fleets for major operations likely. You can remove your head from your ass.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-25 12:14am

MKSheppard wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote: No the Chiss control them. Destiny's Way and Vision of the Future made that quite clear. Why would Leia and Han be attempting to bring in the Empire against the Vong when the Chiss are already actively fighting them and developing a bio weapon against them? The two are separate.
I haven't kept up on my EU novels after the Zahn Duology...my mistake...

Keep in mind those sectors are likely undeveloped. Mara just guessed what they contained but she has no idea, and likely Thrawn's paramilitaries only have token military forces in the area. The Chiss military strength per house is abysmal compared to Republic standards.

And Shep, the New Republic is building huge Empire-era-size Mon Cal battleships now (Strident-class) and has the Executor-class Guardian.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-25 12:20am

Shep: when the New Republic during the Black Fleet Crisis only had the 5 miniscule assault fleets (as opposed to permanently assigned sector-based defense fleets), is was basically just the Core that was their member systems, with a large group of allies and protectorates and trading partners. By NJO/HoT they've expanded to contain most of the galaxy again. The fleet expanded accordingly.