First Look at RotS Deleted Scene (birth of the Alliance)

[Xero Cool Down]

Regardless of how many of us agree with the idea and how many don't, can anyone pinpoint where the idea originated, anyway?

The rebellion had the Mon Cals and a few other non humans fighting with it, while none were seen in uniform in the Empire.

[PainRack]

Err...... using the somewhat questionable Zahn triology, didn't Heir to the Empire establish that the Republic itself was already anti-alien?

[PainRack]

On the anti-alien thing.. despite the fact that the films don't override the idea of a human supremacist Empire, I don't think the Empire had a bias toward non-humans. The specieist Empire is a brain-bug of sorts, perhaps.. as though it wasn't evil enough, the EU had to throw race supremacy in just in case you didn't hate the Empire yet.

I agree that its a stupid brain bug, especially when handled by KJA in that Darksaber POS and the whole Daala thing. However, there really isn't anything to suggest that the Empire, and by extension, the Republic before it didn't suffer from alien bias. Sure, its an EU creation only, but so? The movies don't contradict it.

[Kurgan]

On the anti-alien thing.. despite the fact that the films don't override the idea of a human supremacist Empire, I don't think the Empire had a bias toward non-humans. The specieist Empire is a brain-bug of sorts, perhaps.. as though it wasn't evil enough, the EU had to throw race supremacy in just in case you didn't hate the Empire yet.

I agree that its a stupid brain bug, especially when handled by KJA in that Darksaber POS and the whole Daala thing. However, there really isn't anything to suggest that the Empire, and by extension, the Republic before it didn't suffer from alien bias. Sure, its an EU creation only, but so? The movies don't contradict it.

Nothing to say that the Republic wasn't alien biased? How so? Did I just dream all those alien senators, the alien buearacrats, the alien Jedi on the Jedi Council?

The only aliens we see the Imperials fielding in the movies are the Bounty Hunters (which they are disrespectful towards, seeing them as "scum" but play along because of Vader's plan).. and then we have the Death Star officer's "where are you taking this... thing" etc.

Besides the "all non-human species are one-noters" brain bug in the EU, where is the Republic's anti-alien bias thing coming from?

Perhaps you just mistyped that. If so I apologize and forget what I said.

[Molyneux]

Regardless of how many of us agree with the idea and how many don't, can anyone pinpoint where the idea originated, anyway?

The rebellion had the Mon Cals and a few other non humans fighting with it, while none were seen in uniform in the Empire.

Don't forget the lines the Imperial officer had in ANH when he thought Chewie was a prisoner - "Where are you taking that...thing?"

Every time an Imperial had to interact with a nonhuman in the OT that I can think of, they showed disdain or outright disgust. (Granted, the only other time I can remember an Imp officer face-to-face with an alien is that guy glaring at Bossk).

[Noble Ire]

Besides the "all non-human species are one-noters" brain bug in the EU, where is the Republic's anti-alien bias thing coming from?

As a side note, I have yet to see a SW species that is a "one-noter" and has appeared in a few sources (Bothans and Hutts have been dissproved: There are half a dozen instnces of military Bothans, and there have been several HUtt jedi and warriors.)

[Ford Prefect]

There is a mention of increasing humanisn in the Senate. It's mentioned in the VD when it describes the statues, which are all human.

[Noble Ire]

There is a mention of increasing humanisn in the Senate. It's mentioned in the VD when it describes the statues, which are all human.

Perhaps specism is a better term. Humanism generally has a, for lack of a better term, humanitarian conotation (charitable and just.)

Or would it be Xenophobia? The terminology is a bit confusing.

[PainRack]

Nothing to say that the Republic wasn't alien biased? How so? Did I just dream all those alien senators, the alien buearacrats, the alien Jedi on the Jedi Council?

And? The exclusivity of humans in the military arm as well as certain statements made in HTTE and other EU novels certainly suggest that there are anti-alien sentiments running through the Republic as well.

Besides the "all non-human species are one-noters" brain bug in the EU, where is the Republic's anti-alien bias thing coming from?

Perhaps you just mistyped that. If so I apologize and forget what I said.

You read into it more than what I was saying. An example would be this. Despite the fact that there are black politicians and black businessmen, there still exists white supremacists in America. Its certainly possible that Palpatine rose to power by manipulating such a core of people, same as how he manipulated everyone.

[Ford Prefect]

There is a mention of increasing humanisn in the Senate. It's mentioned in the VD when it describes the statues, which are all human.

Perhaps specism is a better term. Humanism generally has a, for lack of a better term, humanitarian conotation (charitable and just.)

Or would it be Xenophobia? The terminology is a bit confusing.

Good point. The actual wording was something 'Increasing human sentiments." But that also sounds a bit weird.

[The Original Nex]

Don't forget the lines the Imperial officer had in ANH when he thought Chewie was a prisoner - "Where are you taking that...thing?"

Which shows racism in that particular Imperial Security Ward Officer, not in the Empire as a whole.

Notice that even Leia isn't all that polite to Chewie: "Will somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way!"

Every time an Imperial had to interact with a nonhuman in the OT that I can think of, they showed disdain or outright disgust.

Garindan was certainly not being repressed when he gave the Imperial troops information as to a rogue Jedi's wherabouts.

(Granted, the only other time I can remember an Imp officer face-to-face with an alien is that guy glaring at Bossk).

Which had to do with their profession, not race: "Bounty Hunters! We don't need their scum! Those Rebels won't escape us."

Piett was upset by the fact that Vader appeared to have lost faith in the military and was calling in less than legitimate means of capturing the Falcon, in the bounty hunters, not the fact that they were aliens.

I'm not saying the Empire wasn't evil, it mast assuredly was at it's core, but the charges of Imperial racism could have easily been exaggerated by the Rebellion/New Republic (who in SoD are the architects behind the EU sourcebooks, and most other material is sympathetic towards them, while villifying the Empire).

[The Original Nex]

And? The exclusivity of humans in the military arm as well as certain statements made in HTTE and other EU novels certainly suggest that there are anti-alien sentiments running through the Republic as well.

Only because of the Clone War, which Tyranus and Sidious manipulated to place the blame on the alien leaders of the CIS. The Republic wasn't xenophobic when it was at it's peak, or even in its declining years.

Basing the idea that the Republic is racist off of it's final years when it is essentially the Empire in all but name, is foolish, considering the many millenia it has existed, and for these years exists no evidence of Republican racism.

[RThurmont]

The Empire is most definitely xenophobic, although it is impossible really to say why, other than it is Palpatine exploiting leftover hysteria from the Clone Wars. It's worth noting that humans are described in several sources as being the most common sentient species in the galaxy, and obviously, having the backing of humanity would be critical for Palpatine's success.

That said, the xenophobia actually doesn't seem to be very effective at accomplishing this goal, considering that the vast majority of Rebel Alliance personel we see in the original trilogy are humans. The only difference seems to be that the Rebels allow non-humans, and the Empire doesn't, but it does not appear to substantially benefit either party one way or the other.

What makes the Imperial xenophobia even stranger is that in Episode I, Palpatine's apprentice Darth Maul was an alien. Did Palpatine feel that Maul was killed because he wasn't human, and as a result was incompetent? It's fascinating to try to understand the motivation.

Before you ask why I have asserted that the Empire is xenophobic, setting the Expanded Universe material aside, the following observations can be made about it:

1. There are no aliens in the Imperial military (although you all know this by now).
2. The Empire dismisses alien species as being non-threatening based on appearance, with little actual research being done to confirm it (see: the Ewoks).
3. Imperial officers and persons heavily exposed to Imperial culture have little knowledge of and respect for alien species they are not familiar with. The Death Star officer dismissing Chewbacca as a "thing" and Princess Leia calling him a "Walking carpet" demonstrate this (while Leia clearly had good intentions, the fact remains she was an aristocrat and a member of the Imperial Senate, and as a result was culturally, if not politically, very much an "Imperial").

There are other cues as well in the series that the Empire definitely prefers humans.

[The Original Nex]

1. There are no aliens in the Imperial military (although you all know this by now).

Not a fact based on the films. You can't assume that humans are the only race in the Imperial Armed Forces because they are predominant. You're speculating.

2. The Empire dismisses alien species as being non-threatening based on appearance, with little actual research being done to confirm it (see: the Ewoks).

We don't know what they based putting the lable of "harmless non-belligerents" to the Ewoks on. You're speculating.

3. Imperial officers and persons heavily exposed to Imperial culture have little knowledge of and respect for alien species they are not familiar with. The Death Star officer dismissing Chewbacca as a "thing" and Princess Leia calling him a "Walking carpet" demonstrate this (while Leia clearly had good intentions, the fact remains she was an aristocrat and a member of the Imperial Senate, and as a result was culturally, if not politically, very much an "Imperial").

Again, this is speculation, based on one officer's personal predjudices, and Leia's outburst (however inexcusible) in a stressful situation. One would think that her adoptive father would be working to counteract Leia's indoctrination into the Imperial mindset (and it clearly worked)

There are other cues as well in the series that the Empire definitely prefers humans.

Like?

Do you have anything conclusive that isn't based off of speculation? If you want to bring in the EU as evidence fine, then I'll concede a degree of Imperial xenophobia, but the evidence is simply not there in the films.

[Noble Ire]

We don't know what they based putting the lable of "harmless non-belligerents" to the Ewoks on. You're speculating.

The Mon Calamari and Wookiees were classified as non-sentient by the Empire, desite of all of the indications otherwise (most likely done out of either spite, or as a justification for Imperial attempts to enslave the species.) It is reasonable that they might do the same with the Ewoks.

[The Original Nex]

We don't know what they based putting the lable of "harmless non-belligerents" to the Ewoks on. You're speculating.

The Mon Calamari and Wookiees were classified as non-sentient by the Empire, desite of all of the indications otherwise (most likely done out of either spite, or as a justification for Imperial attempts to enslave the species.) It is reasonable that they might do the same with the Ewoks.

I was basing my post entirely off of the film. That was the point, without EU there's no proof that the Empire is xenophobic or racist.

But as to your point, they did as much to the Mon Cals and Wookiees for different reasons. IIRC, the Mon Cal, and some Quarren factions spoke out against Palpatine's new Empire, so the Empire attacked their world and subjugated their people, not all the Mon Cals were enslaved. The Wookiees were most likely subjugated after investigations showed the Wookiee aid in allowing Yoda to escape from the Republic/Imperial troops, and they subjugated the system in retaliation. Again, not all Wooiees were interned as slaves. Not that this acceptable in any civilized society, but that was the Empire's justification.

And this has little to do with the Ewoks being labled as "harmless non-belligerants", given that the Empire seemed completely uninterested in the Ewoks for any means.