A ROTJ question (post-ROTS)

[Lord Revan]

After seeing ROTS I started see the Mustafar dialoge (by both Kenobi and Padme) as being something that went thru Vader's mind when Palpatine was grilling Luke with the Force lighting.

So question is after seeing Revenge of the Sith what do you think went thru Vader's(/Anakin's) mind during that event?

[Guardsman Bass]

During the time when Palpatine was electrocuting Luke? I've been thinking that he may have remembered back to when he killed Dooku in cold-blood anger, and how Luke, unlike himself, refused the challenge. The novelization states, though, that during the electrocution, Vader was focusing all of his strength on the final act of grabbing Palpatine and hurling him over the edge.

[Stravo]

"In your anger...you killed her."

"What? No...she was alive."

THAT bit of dialogue runs through my mind when I think of that scene and Vader is thinking "No one gets a second chance to save someone you love." He looked from the Emperor to Luke and he made his decision. The last bit of Padme that was left needed to be saved.

As an aside I still have trouble imagining that a mass murderer like Anakin would give two shits about a kid that he spent a grand total of 4 hours knowing and most of that time was spent in mortal combat with (Bespin, Endor) suddenly loving him enough to give his life and throw away a partnership that has lasted all of his life (from 8yo onward with Palpatine). However if one looks at it as the last remnant of Padme, well then, it makes all the sense in the world since that's all Anakin ever cared about anyway. Padme.

[Lord Revan]

"In your anger...you killed her."

"What? No...she was alive."

THAT bit of dialogue runs through my mind when I think of that scene and Vader is thinking "No one gets a second chance to save someone you love." He looked from the Emperor to Luke and he made his decision. The last bit of Padme that was left needed to be saved.

As an aside I still have trouble imagining that a mass murderer like Anakin would give two shits about a kid that he spent a grand total of 4 hours knowing and most of that time was spent in mortal combat with (Bespin, Endor) suddenly loving him enough to give his life and throw away a partnership that has lasted all of his life (from 8yo onward with Palpatine). However if one looks at it as the last remnant of Padme, well then, it makes all the sense in the world since that's all Anakin ever cared about anyway. Padme.

What ran thru his mind is what did he gain from siding with the Sith only images of sorrow, pain, misery and broken friendships (and of course images and feelings of fire and Lava), I think the scene you mention is there it's not just the only thing there.

[Lord Pounder]

I guess the sons love for his father touched him. Luke basically gave himself up to horrors unimaginable, imprisonment and conversion by the Emperor, all in the name being able to see his father and say he still felt the good in him. Something Padame would have done.

Then to see his son face the same choice he once faced and see his son make the right choice. The line "I am a Jedi like my father before me" would have stired up what little good remained in Anakin.

[DocHorror]

What i get from that scene is that Lukes love and mercy had touched Vader and reingnited something, thus when Palpatine was gloating away Vader couldn't bear to see HIS son being tortured so and acted to stop it.

[DoctorPhanan]

As an aside I still have trouble imagining that a mass murderer like Anakin would give two shits about a kid that he spent a grand total of 4 hours knowing and most of that time was spent in mortal combat with (Bespin, Endor) suddenly loving him enough to give his life and throw away a partnership that has lasted all of his life (from 8yo onward with Palpatine). However if one looks at it as the last remnant of Padme, well then, it makes all the sense in the world since that's all Anakin ever cared about anyway. Padme.

I think that since there was already a conflict, and Vader was watching his own flesh and blood being tortured, it drove him over the edge. I mean even if we dont see Luke as the last bit of Padme, Vader supposedly had an internal conflict, that the good eventually won out.

[Publius]

Ever since he'd discovered Luke's existence, Darth Vader was obsessed with finding him and turning him to the dark side (this is not an assumption -- it is explicitly stated in The Empire Strikes Back). His desire was to join with his son and destroy the Emperor, to rule the galaxy with Luke as he had once wanted to do with Padmé. The difference is that in the throne room he chose to sacrifice himself to protect his son from the dark side rather than to turn him to it as he'd initially hoped. He was very certainly emotionally attached to his son, and there was no question that his long relationship with Palpatine was not inviolate (he'd planned to kill him once he'd learned everything there was to learn from him, anyway).

[Knife]

It really seems to be a reverse of how he fell. He loved Padme, didn't want to loose her so did things that made him fall to save her, ended up not caring or not thinking about her in his power.

With Luke, he was thinking about more power and deposing Palpatine. In doing that he needed to 'train' Luke to be powerful enough, he needed to dominate and control Luke so needed to be close. Then he needed to save him, ended up loving him and redemed himself.

That Luke was his fathers son AND was the last bit of Padme (well, most of the time he was dicking with Luke, he was unaware that Leia was his daughter). I'm sure that greased the wheels a bit.

[Elheru Aran]

That Luke was his fathers son AND was the last bit of Padme (well, most of the time he was dicking with Luke, he was unaware that Leia was his daughter). I'm sure that greased the wheels a bit.

Speaking of which, I imagine Vader's discovery of Luke having a sister (not necessarily that Leia was said sister, only that he had a sister) had considerable impact upon his emotional state. He's already fragile enough with chasing after Luke; the revelation that he has a daughter, another Padme, was no doubt quite powerful. It is quite notable that after he says, "She, too, will be turned to the dark side", Luke attacks-- and Vader falls back, retreats, and is defeated. Now, admittedly, much of that was no doubt due to Luke's anger at his father's taunting, but if Vader wasn't aware of Leia and had merely been coming after Luke, I seriously doubt he would've let himself get bitchslapped like that...

[Connor MacLeod]

As an aside I still have trouble imagining that a mass murderer like Anakin would give two shits about a kid that he spent a grand total of 4 hours knowing and most of that time was spent in mortal combat with (Bespin, Endor) suddenly loving him enough to give his life and throw away a partnership that has lasted all of his life (from 8yo onward with Palpatine). However if one looks at it as the last remnant of Padme, well then, it makes all the sense in the world since that's all Anakin ever cared about anyway. Padme.

He probably doesn't in the sense a normal person might. But Anakin is clearly a deranged and rather unstable individual to begin with (his "love" for his mother and Padme always seemed to border on the obsessive IMO.) and Anakin was always given to acting on wild, irrational impulses like that. (look at how he fluctuates from loving palpatine to killing him to usurp his position to loving/serving him loyally again in ROTS.)

I think that in the end, his final action was just more of his obsessive and impulsive/irrational personality exerting itself again. He finally received a new focus for his obsession instead of Palpatine (IE Luke - look at how he "searched" for this new Skywalker, and how he made some of the same offers to Luke that he made to Padme) and he said "fuck Palpatine" and threw him off the ledge (Much the way he said "fuck Obi-Wan" when he joined the Sith to save Padme, and how he said "fuck Pad-me", when he thought she was betraying him.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Further note: Didn't Vader in ROTJ tell Luke that he "must obey his Master" just after he made the offer to Luke of disposing of Palpatine and rulling the galaxy as "father and son?" I seem to recall that, that seems to be further evidence of the re-surfacing of his erratic and inconsistent behaviour from the prequels (he's fluctuating between his obsessive love for his lost son, and his devotional attachment/obedience to Palpatine.)

[Cykeisme]

I guess the sons love for his father touched him. Luke basically gave himself up to horrors unimaginable, imprisonment and conversion by the Emperor, all in the name being able to see his father and say he still felt the good in him. Something Padame would have done.

Agreed.
He may have only had roughly four hours of contact with Luke, but there's also what you just mentioned. I guess it's also possible, that four hours of contact between Force users of this magnitude, who also have a blood bond, may be more significant than normal. I mean, Luke says that he felt the good in his father.

Then to see his son face the same choice he once faced and see his son make the right choice. The line "I am a Jedi like my father before me" would have stired up what little good remained in Anakin.

I must say, that line was indeed powerful. The obvious similarity between Anakin besting Dooku and Luke besting Vader, and the difference between their actions is so important.
When Luke says, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me", the line is strong enough to bring tears to my eyes

I seem to recall that, that seems to be further evidence of the re-surfacing of his erratic and inconsistent behaviour from the prequels (he's fluctuating between his obsessive love for his lost son, and his devotional attachment/obedience to Palpatine.)

The conflict between ninjo and giri is hardly surprising for a man whose helmet is shaped like a samurai's

[Havok]

I think that Vader finally put two and two together. He realized that he didn't physically kill Padme and that his turn to the Dark Side had destroyed her and that subsequently, the Emperor was to blame.
He finally figured out that he had been played and that he betrayed everything that he loved and everything that he might have been.

It was an epiphany... a moment of clarity. Everything finally made sense. Seeing his and Padme's child being destroyed by the same evil that had consumed him was too much to bear and the last iota of light left in him erupted and Anakin Skywalker was reborn.