The Imperial Guard

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-27 06:09am

Sardaukar wrote:
That's retarded, what Lucas says goes. He's free to change his mind whenever he wants.

Yes he is, and the indications are that he will retouch the OT to make them more obviously clones (same voices, hopefully same height etc). Until such time however, until he puts it in the movie, we can draw no conclusions- the stormtroopers in the OT are currently not very cloneish.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 06:30am

FYI Quotes from the AOTC DVD Commentary:

Lucas: "Boba was originally intended to be just another clone, who for some reason had broken off from the Stormtroopers"

Lucas: "Early on the Stormtroopers were meant to be clones"

Lucas(re. head bumping): "...wouldn't it be funny if that's a trait that Jango has... and that trait gets cloned in to all the Stomrtroopers..."

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 06:31am

Boba Fett wrote:According to Zahn's trilogy (which was accepted by Lucas, and he said if he would make the episodes from 7-9 he would base on these books) all the cloning vats were destroyed in the Clone Wars.
The only cloning device which is still operating has been hidden away in the Emperor's secret fortress. I can't remember it's location but in the novel "The last order" you can search for it.
That's where Luke confronts with his own clone.

So, to get back to topic the stormtroopers are NOT clones!!!

Several other books mention that they're recruited HUMAN "elite" soldiers.
Although we never see them, the main body of the Imperial Army are common troopers. Stormtroopers are the elite of these troops.
Elite stormtroopers can advance to Zero-G stormtroopers or if they hit the required parameters and has the ability to use the force they can be choosed to be Royal Imperial Guards.
These guards don't have any relationship with the Republic Senate Guards.

The Royal Imperial Guards are the highest trained ex-stormtroopers, veterans of several battles and they are thought by the Emperor personally to some minor force ability.
Their number calculated between 15000-50000.
After the BoE all the Royal Imperial Guards withdraw to the Core systems, probably to Byss.

Thanks West End Games.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-11-27 06:42am

"Thanks West End Games!"

I don't know anything about West End Games' theory, I read this in B. Slavichek's book.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 07:15am

Boba Fett wrote:"Thanks West End Games!"

I don't know anything about West End Games' theory, I read this in B. Slavichek's book.

Bill Slavisek worked for West End Games and helped develop the D6 SWRPG

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-11-27 08:24am

Sorry about that! I didn't know it!

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-27 03:38pm

Sardaukar wrote:FYI Quotes from the AOTC DVD Commentary:

Lucas: "Boba was originally intended to be just another clone, who for some reason had broken off from the Stormtroopers"

Lucas: "Early on the Stormtroopers were meant to be clones"

Lucas(re. head bumping): "...wouldn't it be funny if that's a trait that Jango has... and that trait gets cloned in to all the Stomrtroopers..."

This doesn't mean they are all clones. My whole point. I think obviously the stormtroopers are the conceptual children of the clonetroopers, but there's no way logically the stormtroopers are all clones. I can see why certain regiments assigned to certain missions; secret ones, committing atrocities, etc. would be easier w/ clones. But beyond that it just doesn't make sense. As I've explained in god knows how many threads.

I'm getting off the soapbox now. End rant.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-27 03:39pm

Sardaukar wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Because Lucas' opinions are out-of-universe and have changed multiple times over the years. If you actually look over the evolution of Lucas' comments, you get the impression that the Grand Vision of Star Wars (tm) has hardly remained the same or cohesive over the last 25 years.

There's a good reason for clones in AOTC. There's not for clones in the OT. Put out of universe comments plus stupid implications plus needless continuity fucking equals compromise theory/don't give a shit what he says, until its put into the movies.
That's retarded, what Lucas says goes. He's free to change his mind whenever he wants.

Show me where it is in canon policy and I'll STFU.

He's changed his mind over and over. Fucked up continuity is a direct result of Lucas' inability to remain consistent even since 1991.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 05:33pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote: Show me where it is in canon policy and I'll STFU.

He's changed his mind over and over. Fucked up continuity is a direct result of Lucas' inability to remain consistent even since 1991.

The only contradictions are with the EU. Now, I'm not canon-nazi purist, but I am willing to discard parts of the EU when Lucas says something like "the stormtroopers are clones". Sure someone at Lucasfilm is going to attempt to fix it all up by rationalisation, but that still doesn't change Lucas' intentions.
If Lucas says something that isn't a joke and isn't contradicted by the movies, it should be treated as canon.

I'd like to know how involved Lucas gets with most of the EU, does he help work out the storylines? Probably not. Does he read all the stories? He might... Or does he just get a rough outline like "10 years after the Battle of Endor and Imperial warlord called Thrawn uses clones to attack the New Republic." and then signs it off with the addition "Luke confronts a clone of himself"?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-27 08:08pm

I've already explained why it is illogical for the stormtroopers to be clones.

But, a fellow poster on another forum did a better job, thus:

Thief wrote:The greatest strength of the clone troopers in Attack of the Clones is not cost-effectiveness, or their combat capability: It's their political acceptability.

Even with emergency powers, I doubt very much that most senators would be happy if the Supreme Chancellor decreed passage of the Military Creation Act and raised an army. Instead, he just authorised the nationalisation of the ready-to-deploy clone army.

At least part of the opposition to militarisation was not motivated by pacifism: Remember, Chandrila and Corellia appeared to be more concerned about finance and manpower than non-belligerency.

With the clone army, those people really have no reason to object. The clone army is already ready. It's composed entirely of non-voting people with no families. Politically, it's totally cost-free.

But that justification does not apply under the Empire.

The Empire is not going to be able to just nationalise a clone army: It's going to have to pay for one. And that's not going to be cheap.

The use of clones in the Imperial era is logistically and sociologically unjustifiable.

No. Lucas has personally commanded major changes to several storylines.

Lucas was a consultant for Marvel's SW series.

He personally participated to a degree in the Sith Wars comic series thousands of years before ANH.

He nixed a Vader clone from original concepts for Dark Empire. Reportedly, this series was the closest to what inital plans of Ep. 7-9 were. It most certainly was not the TTT which doesn't quite ressemble Lucas' style nor vision, and it was definitely Zahn's personal contrabution to SW, making the future EU always work around his vision as well. Lucas read this and liked it so much he purchased it for his employees as a Christmas present that year.

He nixed the Noghri being the Sith, and their face ressembling Vader's mask. He nixed the clone of Obi-Wan, forcing C'boath into creation. He made several other decisions on the TTT.

In KJA's trilogy, he personally told KJA to make the temples at Yavin those of the Sith, and to make Kun and the backstory that of a Sith Lord. Anderson originally planned to have Kun be a Dark Jedi spirit, not a Sith Lord.

Lucas reads a story treatment on each authors proposal for a novel. KJA and Vietch spoke with their correspondences with LFL high-ups and Lucas' personal touches. He reads an in-depth synopsis of each and every novel published.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 08:20pm

Source?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2002-11-27 08:30pm

For which? All of the above?

I can deliver, but it will take a while to ask my compatriot who happens to keep a supply of all these quotes and sources and whatnot.

Give me a couple days? Tell me which?

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-11-27 08:40pm

Any/all, No rush.
If there's a websit ethat lists them, just give me that.