Interesting Clone Wars -> Rebellion carryover

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-10-12 04:50am

I'm assuming the comics are canonical as the novels?

Looked in Star Wars: Empire #36, "On the Wrong Side of the War" (1 of 5), and I saw that not only was the main character repeatedly cloned and that he commands them (anyone reminded of Multiplicity?) but that apparently they still use Acclamators, now as stormtrooper transports.

It doesn't seem that they made any changes to the Acclamators, but interestingly, there's enough of a memory gap that the "protagonist" (a lieutenant) has only heard that the Clone Wars-era clones were even tougher than his own clone stormtroopers.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-10-12 05:21am

Yes, the comics are part of continuity unless otherwise stated (i.e marked with Infinities label).

Imperial Acclamators have been known of for a while now. (An image in Coruscant and the Core Worlds RPG book, a playable unit in Empire at War and acting as slave ships in the latest Jabiim arc in SW Empire.)

Were there any land-craft from the CW in this issue?

(I just need more info for SW Wiki entries and references ;))

interestingly, there's enough of a memory gap that the "protagonist" (a lieutenant) has only heard that the Clone Wars-era clones were even tougher than his own clone stormtroopers.

Not surprising, as most CW clones would be retired and/or dead by the time the GCW comes around.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-10-12 06:15am

Yes, the comics are part of continuity unless otherwise stated (i.e marked with Infinities label).

Thank you for confirming this.

By the way, does that mean that Baron Soontir Fel appears only in the Rogue Squadron comics and New Jedi Order?

Imperial Acclamators have been known of for a while now. (An image in Coruscant and the Core Worlds RPG book, a playable unit in Empire at War and acting as slave ships in the latest Jabiim arc in SW Empire.)

Oh, my bad. But thanks for elaborating.

Were there any land-craft from the CW in this issue? (I just need more info for SW Wiki entries and references )

Unfortunately, the only ground vehicles were AT-AT's.

Not surprising, as most CW clones would be retired and/or dead by the time the GCW comes around.

What I'm not so sure about is just why there was a tone down, it seems; that is, why did Palpatine or someone else make the decision to end (AFAIK) the Jango Fett cloning line and start cloning (only?) regular Imperial Army soldiers and stormtroopers. I'm thinking that that might explain the narration, "They are bred purely for duty -- pliable, patient and tough. Though, Sunber has heard that during the Clone Wars, they were even tougher." (Correction: I looked again, they're not clones OF Lt. Janke Sunber.)

For that matter, I'm not sure just what Lt. Sunber's billet is, considering that he wears Imperial Starfleet/Navy olive instead of Stormtrooper Corps black, or why this naval officer is commanding stormtroopers - who I recall weren't supposed to be the cannon fodder but the special forces (in a sense) of the Imperial infantry.

However, it is very interesting that contrary to the cover, while groundside he wears a utilitarian jumpsuit I've never seen before, also in naval olive and with the dinky officer's cap and rank squares, under a functional-looking suspender-type harness with "mag" pouch on the right strap over the chest, a cylinder of unknown function opposite it and what has a strange resemblance to a TOS-era tricorder (complete with holding box) atop his left thigh on the belt. In behind it's a set of what looks like magazine (or other supply) pouches and around, an H-type harness on his back, and what looks like a strapless "drop-leg" thigh holster over the jumpsuit's thigh pockets.

This better not turn out to be one of those "Sunber sees the light and joins the Rebellion" storylines...

... and I won't pretend to know why the Empire's planetside combat engineers run around in purple...

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-10-12 06:36am

Edward Yee wrote:By the way, does that mean that Baron Soontir Fel appears only in the Rogue Squadron comics and New Jedi Order?

Since I haven't read much about the character, I don't know, sorry. =/

If it's game mechanics that make him appear before, then it's not canon. However if a story of a game includes him and doesn't contradict higher sources, then it's part of continuity as well.

Unfortunately, the only ground vehicles were AT-AT's.

Oh, crumbs. I've been waiting for a proper combat story with Imperial AT-TEs for a long time now... (The tank variant, not the cargo transport seen in previous issues.)

What I'm not so sure about is just why there was a tone down, it seems; that is, why did Palpatine or someone else make the decision to end (AFAIK) the Jango Fett cloning line and start cloning (only?) regular Imperial Army soldiers and stormtroopers.

Maybe a need for more troops, quicker, during the Empire's long consolidation of power in the galaxy, simply meant they had to sacrifice quality for quantity? This combined with ordinary citizens being enlisted and wearing stormtrooper armor might lead to the misconception that CW clones were "tougher".

For that matter, I'm not sure just what Lt. Sunber's billet is, considering that he wears Imperial Starfleet/Navy olive instead of Stormtrooper Corps black, or why this naval officer is commanding stormtroopers - who I recall weren't supposed to be the cannon fodder but the special forces (in a sense) of the Imperial infantry.

In "To the Last Man" (Empire issue 16-18) he said explicitly that he had to turn to the Imperial Infantry when he couldn't make the grade as a pilot. Seems some infantry uniforms just look more like the ones seen aboard ships. (Though I did like the detail I saw in the preview, with a force of both Stormtroopers and Army troopers)

He and other Army officers also wore the same uniforms on a planetary mission in TTLM, without any protection (it was thought to be a relatively peaceful mission).

This better not turn out to be one of those "Sunber sees the light and joins the Rebellion" storylines...

I hope to god not. He's one of the few good Imperials I've seen who hasn't joined the Rebels yet. I'm gonna be pissed if he does at the end of this new four-parter. >O

... and I won't pretend to know why the Empire's planetside combat engineers run around in purple...

Can't help you there. :P

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-10-12 07:17am

I'll ID Soontir Fel in the PM.

Ah well, I was hoping to see if he appeared in any other novels. (He's only mentioned in Starfighters of Adumar, the last of the X-Wing series.)

This combined with ordinary citizens being enlisted and wearing stormtrooper armor might lead to the misconception that CW clones were "tougher"

Wait, when was this? (That would admittedly explain why stormtroopers are always the cannon fodder in Star Wars depictions and even inadvertently explains "the stormtrooper effect," but it just seems odd that poorly trained Imperial Army troopers would be allowed to be misidentified as elite actual stormtroopers.)

Thanks for telling me about "To The Last Man," I'm gonna go get that.

I hope to god not. He's one of the few good Imperials I've seen who hasn't joined the Rebels yet. I'm gonna be pissed if he does at the end of this new four-parter. >O

Who're the rest?

And yeah, it is depressing.

SO cliched, "good Imps" being only the ones who "see the light" and defect, like Crix Madine. Soontir Fel did end up joining the New Republic, but it seems to have been "my Empire died at Endor" for him. (That, plus a circumstance he had no way of knowing. Oh, and this is a five-parter.)

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-10-12 07:30am

Edward Yee wrote:Wait, when was this? (That would admittedly explain why stormtroopers are always the cannon fodder in Star Wars depictions and even inadvertently explains "the stormtrooper effect," but it just seems odd that poorly trained Imperial Army troopers would be allowed to be misidentified as elite actual stormtroopers.)

I was talking about Stormtroopers.

It's been long speculated that Stormtroopers were a mix of clones (from later Jango-stock and other sources), volunteers and draftees.
Lucas himself confirmed this some time ago, and both clones and non-clones have been shown in armor, so that is 'canon'.

Thanks for telling me about "To The Last Man," I'm gonna go get that.

It's one of the best stories to come out of SW: Empire. A small force of Imperial Infantry (with Sunber as the main character) against an army of Amanin on Maridun, going though the days of the battle.

Who're the rest?

Hmm, maybe I should have specified 'defected or died', since I've seen more of the latter than the former. Hell, they even demoted General Veers to Captain and sent him out on a certain suicide mission at the front! @__@

And yeah, it is depressing. :( SO cliched, "good Imps" being only the ones who "see the light" and defect, like Crix Madine.

I'd like this to end like the last one with Sunber, he realises there's alot of shit in the Empire, yet sticks with his troops because he cares more about them than the fanaticism and arrogance of the higher ups.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-10-12 12:11pm

Baron-General Fel makes an appearance in the Thrawn Duology by Zahn. He faked capture by Grand Admiral Thrawn and joined him in defending the Chiss Empire of the Hand, later joining main stream Chiss society. Mentions are also made of him in Survivors Quest, also by Tim Zahn.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2005-10-12 11:55pm

VT-16 wrote:It's one of the best stories to come out of SW: Empire. A small force of Imperial Infantry (with Sunber as the main character) against an army of Amanin on Maridun, going though the days of the battle.

Should I take this (and the Battle of Hoth) to mean that trench warfare remains valid in the Star Wars universe, despite Captain Gage's cowardice? (Since were it not for that, I assume they would have taken fewer losses in the initial assault on the first trench.)

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-10-13 01:34am

Lucas also confirmed that some Jango-line clones are still in use by the Empire (the guy who bumps his head on the door in ANH for example).

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-10-13 02:26am

Kurgan wrote:Lucas also confirmed that some Jango-line clones are still in use by the Empire (the guy who bumps his head on the door in ANH for example).

The guy who bumps his head? Serious? Where and when was this stated?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-10-13 02:46am

Skylon wrote: The guy who bumps his head? Serious? Where and when was this stated?

Watch the Stormies barge into C3PO and R2's little computer room in ANH, and keep an eye out for the one who smacks his head on the door.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-10-13 04:03am

And Lucas, being Lucas, figured it'd be hi-fucking-larious if he had Jango do the same thing, so, y'know, it'd be explained that that particular stormie inherited his head-bumping genes or whatever.

Since Lucas says this all in the commentary, I'm not sure that it's valid, thankfully.

There is however an issue of Empire which follows a stormtrooper who is definitely a clone, and, by the looks of it, is probably a Jango clone to boot.