"The Swarm War" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Guardsman Bass]

If I remember correctly, one of the charcters in (gag) Children of the Jedi had been transferred into an artifical body after she contracted some incurable disease. What I don't remember, (and really don't want to reread the book for,) is whether it was actually her conciousness transferred into that body, or just a carefully made duplicate of her personality.

It was actually a guy named 'Niclaus' or 'Nicholas' - something like that, I just remember he was Cray's fiance. We also see in that book a woman (Callista) who actually bound her soul into a machine, and stayed that way for decades (although that kind of stuff may be limited to Jedi and Sith), and then re-entered another woman's body. Sort of like what Palpatine did with clones.

[Connor MacLeod]

Nichos Marr? IIRC he wasn't "really" transferred in any meaningful sense (I vaguely recall some claims he was "enteched" into the suit or something) but the idea from the novel that I gathered (although its been awhile since I read it) is that it was more of a facsimilie of his personality and thoughts and memories. IE it wasn't really "him".

That said, yes, cybernetics and the like quite probably would allow a person to extend their lifespan as organs failed, up to a point I imagine at least (thinka bout it - at the very least you'd need your brain functioning unless you wanted to become a Nichos-bot, which means that you're lifespan would become dependent upon how long you could keep said brain functioning. That and you'd end up like Grievous.

[Publius]

Which also raises the question of Theseus's paradox: How much of a thing can be replaced before the thing is no longer the original but rather a replica? If one is reduced to human brain cells within a prosthetic body -- à la Ghost in the Shell -- how much of one's humanity, one's fundamental being, remains? Even supposing that all the faculties of the human senses could be duplicated -- which presumably can be in Star Wars, as C-3PO is mentioned as being able to react naturally to 'offensive odors' as well as having electronic nerves and ganglia in Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker -- eventually even those brain cells would die. If those brain cells were replaced with cloned tissue, would the resultant cyborg be still the original person, or a clone?

Furthermore, there is the metaphysical aspect to be discussed. The theology of the Force -- dynamology, as it were -- is not an unverified and unverifiable science as theology and philosophy are in our own time and place. There is conclusive canonical evidence of metaphysical phenomena, even if we lack the knowledge and mechanisms to analyze their workings beyond measurement of certain manifestations (e.g., psychokinesis, enhanced physical strength and speed, &c.). Jedi Knights and Sith Lords have been seen to appear as ghosts after the destruction of their corporeal selves, and to retain identity and consciousness; perhaps the most noteworthy examples are those of Dr. Bevel Lemelisk and the Galactic Emperor, both of whom died and were reincarnated several times.

Examined in the context of Theseus's paradox, it would seem that there cannot be any doubt: After their first deaths, neither Lemelisk nor the Emperor had the same body at all -- there was no physical continuity of existence. There was no organic succession; there were not even brain cells in common between the old body and the new body (although the brain cells were clones of the originals, they were never part of the same brain at any given time). There is, quite simply, no question at all; their new bodies were replicas of their old bodies. The rub, however, lay in the metaphysics of it: Their spirits -- their souls, their essences, their ghosts in the shell, or whatever the preferred term might be -- were intact. It is not a question of a string of gholas each having the accumulated memories of the previous incarnations; it is a clear-cut case of reincarnation of the being.

The result of this is to complicate the question of continuity of identity even further, since -- in Star Wars, at least -- it is possible for the same person to extend his or her life artificially even after the complete destruction of his or her body, with not the slightest remnant of the original body remaining. There is some essential aspect of the sapient being that exists independently of the corporeal form; in that light, it would theoretically be possible for medical science in Star Wars to prolong one's life to immortality (precisely as the Galactic Emperor intended, of course).

[Guardsman Bass]

I've got a question about that paradox, Publius. Suppose a person, not having access to the soul-transfer abilities of Palpatine, replaces their entire body with new cybernetic parts, and then begins to substitute cloned neurons for the decaying old ones. If they never lost consciousness in the process, do you think that, in the SW universe, the person would remain the same person, with the same 'soul'?

[FTeik]

You're never the person you've been a year ago.

Body-cells are constantly replaced and the connections of the brain re-wire themself, too. Not even your memories and personality stay the same over the years, so the question is pointless.

[Guardsman Bass]

You're never the person you've been a year ago.

Body-cells are constantly replaced and the connections of the brain re-wire themself, too. Not even your memories and personality stay the same over the years, so the question is pointless.

It's not quite the same, though. In my case, cloned neurons are being injected into your brain to be rewired, so it's like your entire brain is being substituted for a new one with the same connections.

[Crown]

Which also raises the question of Theseus's paradox: How much of a thing can be replaced before the thing is no longer the original but rather a replica?<snip>

If Bill Bryson's book; 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' is right, then technically I am a clone of myself every nine years or so.

*shrug*

[RogueIce]

Ok. I haven't read any SW books since the NJO series started but what is the GFFA and what happened to the New Republic?

The New Republic more or less collapsed under its own in-fighting and ineptitude, especially after Coruscant fell to the Yuuzhan Vong in Star by Star. The remnants were re-organized into the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances following the Battle of Ebaq 9 in Destiny's Way, where the tide of war turned slightly into the Republic's favtor.

I've got a question. Given that's why the NR collapsed the GFFA formed...and now it seems the GFFA is starting to apparently do the same thing (if I'm reading the thread right)...what does that say about this whole "Alliance" model of government in the SW galaxy? Do they actually need something like Palpatine's Empire (minus the Sith soul drain thing) to ever respond to some "Big Galaxy Threat"? Is that a message that they may be trying to convey in the EU now?

Or is it that they're just inventing excuses for the galaxy at large to not simply extinguish the new threat and put the main heroes out of a job?

EDIT: And if it is the second option, can't we just theorize that's the reason (the first one) for the galactic government to act stupidly and sleep a tiny bit better at night?

[FTeik]

I think it is more a question about how stable a democracy - and especially such a large one as the one shown in SW - is, if faced with a crisis.

The Galactic Republic has ruled for 25,000 years in one form or the other and it has always been threatened when it forgot about its principles in favour or procedure.