"Little Palpatines"

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 12:13am

What is really bizarre here, as far as I'm concerned, is that Karen Traviss and her supporters are going to such great lengths to force the 3 million clone figure to be designated as canon. Which begs the question, WHY? Is there any real reason to make Star Wars any more ridiculously unrealistic than it is already? At least there should be a number of clones reflective of the level of personell required to conduct large-scale military action against the CIS.

By the way, does the text of Poe's blog survive anywhere, or is the entire blog more or less lost forever?

I think this incident is somewhat of a compelling indictment of the Hyperspace forums, and also, suggests that it might not be a bad idea to blog elsewhere.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-30 12:15am

This is actually the most fascinating aspect of the whole shitstorm. There are many (well, vocal) fans who simply can't bear to criticise their pet 'VIPs'. These are the same people who hate, absolutely HATE Saxton et al. It seems to me (as a not-EU person) more like a holy war than anything else.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 12:27am

Sooner or later, senior Lucasfilm management is going to have to get involved. We know for a fact that they're loosing revenue over this, since I would assume that in locking the accounts of Wayne Poe and other dissenters, they're cutting themselves off from however much it costs for a Hyperspace subscription. I would strongly suspect that most minimalists would not loose their interest in SW if the official numbers were "de-minimalized" given their skill at ignoring reality, but the reverse I think would be less likely to hold up, since non-minimalists are likely to be educated people...i.e. professionals, IT nerds, and so on, who would be less inclined to put up with that. Thus, this puts subscriptions for SW Insider and sales of future EU publications at risk.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-30 12:32am

Hang on - Wayne didn't just get his blog shut down, his whole Hyperspace, paid-for service is gone? That's BULLSHIT.

Anyway, I see this as an outgrowth of the 'fixed EU' that started to emerge thanks to DK, Saxton, et al. Many EU fans absolutely HATE this - for some reason - and I think Traviss' support is leveraged on this mass of Saxton-hating minimalists looking for legitmacy.

Frankly, I find Publius' fanfiction more interesting than actual, published EU pulp rubbish.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-30 12:33am

RThurmont wrote:Sooner or later, senior Lucasfilm management is going to have to get involved. We know for a fact that they're loosing revenue over this, since I would assume that in locking the accounts of Wayne Poe and other dissenters, they're cutting themselves off from however much it costs for a Hyperspace subscription. I would strongly suspect that most minimalists would not loose their interest in SW if the official numbers were "de-minimalized" given their skill at ignoring reality, but the reverse I think would be less likely to hold up, since non-minimalists are likely to be educated people...i.e. professionals, IT nerds, and so on, who would be less inclined to put up with that. Thus, this puts subscriptions for SW Insider and sales of future EU publications at risk.

I cancelled my subscription to Insider, stopped purchasing EU materials, and no longer purchase SW merchandise as a direct result of the three million clones insult.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 12:42am

So there you go. Clearly, this represents lost revenue. As a result of this problem, Karen Traviss and her cadre of moronic supporters should be, at the very least, subject to a very negative performance review.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-30 12:50am

By the way, does the text of Poe's blog survive anywhere, or is the entire blog more or less lost forever?

If he still has an account, he should be able to look and copy it himself until his subscription shuts down. Additionally, non-deleted articles should still be viewable (assuming the whole shebang wasn't deleted).

Hang on - Wayne didn't just get his blog shut down, his whole Hyperspace, paid-for service is gone? That's BULLSHIT.

What makes you think that? When this happened to me, my access to the blogs and forums was terminated, not the whole subscription to Hyperspace. They can do that, but not without direct authorization from an Admin (Dark Moose couldn't do it by himself).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-30 12:54am

Noble Ire wrote:What makes you think that? When this happened to me, my access to the blogs and forums was terminated, not the whole subscription to Hyperspace. They can do that, but not without direct authorization from an Admin (Dark Moose couldn't do it by himself).

I don't know how Hyperspace works, but what RThurmont said made it sound like his whole subscription was toast. Which would be pretty outrageous.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-30 01:03am

Stark wrote:
Noble Ire wrote:What makes you think that? When this happened to me, my access to the blogs and forums was terminated, not the whole subscription to Hyperspace. They can do that, but not without direct authorization from an Admin (Dark Moose couldn't do it by himself).
I don't know how Hyperspace works, but what RThurmont said made it sound like his whole subscription was toast. Which would be pretty outrageous.

Upon further inspection, it would appear that the entire blog has been terminated, something I have never seen there before. Still, the fact that his name is still displayed with an avatar icon suggests that his account still exists, if in a drastically truncated form. I suppose we can know until Poe logs on once more, though.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2006-04-30 01:21am

Since when have authors been immune to criticism? Isn't getting critiqued the bread-and-butter of being an author? And if you can't be troubled to listen to things, especially things that may have been a mistake, and then at least admit to it--with or without an apology--how does that make you anything other than a little kid? I never buy EU stuff because I'm just not interested, but if these were like spinoffs of Asimov's Foundation Series rewriting the three laws or something, I would feel incredibly offended by that author. The "I, Robot" movie was painful enough. ;p

I have no idea why these fans are defending them. Perhaps, by doing so, they feel like they too are granted some level of legitmacy. Or maybe they really like the material. But, seriously, this is just one thing. If she made some sort of statement that at least acknowledged this issue and didn't just call everyone a bunch of idiots for disbelieving the almighty authoress, this would fall apart quickly. This massive counteroffensive on the part of the various admins is really very telling of the level of respect they show to their peers though. I could understand if their desire to have an author on-site was greater than their desire to have me repeatedly flame her, but quashing any dissent? What's next? No negative book reviews? Or is it somehow more acceptable for me to say she's a hack writer than she got some numbers wrong?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-04-30 03:10am

Yep, Dark Moose blocked my blog. However, I still have Hyperspace access. Don't look for my blog to be unblocked any time soon, if at all. As most of you probably already know, you'll never see me beg Moose's forgiveness for ANYTHING, and ask for my blog to be unblocked. I'll simply continue SW related blogs on my website, where they can't be locked by suck-up cunts.

Anyway, here's the message I was sent:

To: Darth Talas
From: The Dark Moose
RE: "Chewie, Get Me A Hydrospanner!" : Little Palpatines

Comments: Talas - come see me in Blog Feedback if you have questions. I've seen a disturbing trend from you again, and it's going to stop.

Don't post blog entries flaming members of the VIP pool ever. I've warned you before about this. Names or no names, veiled flaming is still flaming, and I don't play that game.

DM out

My response (which will eventually show up on the "Blog Feedback" section of sw.com forums, where Moose will say I once again misinterpreted him, and throw in a Moose-related jibe to keep the situation light):

My blog has been blocked for "flaming"? There is no flame in that blog whatsoever, directed to any one VIP or anyone else. But in your message you, say,

"Names or no names, veiled flaming is still flaming," Sorry, I don't see it. I've followed your paticular criteria for blogs to the letter, which included comments like: "Because someone says something about a generality does NOT mean they are talking about YOU in particular. However, it's so easy to bring the fight back not to the generality, but to the person when it comes to us fans. George might say "I don't like milk". Does that mean that every milk producer should come to his doorstep and say "I think you're insulting me, and everyone I know." No. It's an opinion. "

So, enlighten me. How have I offended a VIP and not simply voiced an opinion?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-04-30 03:12am

BTW, here's the "Little Palpatines" blog:

Little Palpatines

Now that the Star Wars movies have ended, the spinoff literature, comics, and various TV projects have stepped into the void to further flesh out the GFFA. This is a great boon for fans when quality products are offered. The various authors, artists, and other contributors find themselves elevated to "VIP" status, and even generate their own fan base. While some of these VIPs don't really encourage this, a few openly engage their fans on various forums and blogs around the internet. Great access for fans, but is it always a good thing?

Some VIPs seem to bask in a cult of personality, and see themselves as the go-to guy or gal for a certain subject they've written about. This gets particularly troubling when these VIPs refuse to be "corrected" if they happen to get something wrong in one of their works. They bristle that a non-VIP (read: fan) would have the nerve to question anything they've written or drawn about. For instance, let's say that we clearly see four lightsabers hanging from General Grievous' belt when he orders Anakin and Obi-Wan to the bridge of the Invisible Hand in ROTS. If some VIP, who has emerged as the author who writes about Grievous the most in one of their works insists there were only two lightsabers, fans should be able to point this inconsistency out.

However, some "little Palpatines" within the VIP pool see any detractors as enemies, labelling them with unflattering names, inventing home lives for them, or falling back on that old standby that they need to "get a life." numbers don't really mean anything anyhoo. But the worst thing little Palpatines do is further an agenda in other projects rather than admit the error. They may write up a Star Wars Insider article of sw.com blog explaining that General Grievous was really Force projecting four lightsaber hilts into the minds of moviegoers, but he only REALLY had two.

This kind of snarking belittles the EU every time it happens. Sadly, its happening more frequently. It seems some little Palpatines are more interested in "leaving their mark" in the GFFA than actually elevating it. We have VIPs insisting their interpretation of a scene from the movies is the "correct" one; after all, they have a VIP badge on their lapel! The ambiguities from the films used to be left up to the fans to interpret. Now the Emperor refuses to hear that he has no clothes.

Well, fans don't have to like it, or accept the self aggrandizement of the little Palpatines. That's how Rebellions begin...

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-30 03:40am

Unbelievable. So, it's okay to call the writings of other authors "rolls of toilet paper" while others gets a "free from criticism" card. I don't understand the point with a blog if you can't have certain opinions on things. Well, I'm glad that I didn't renew my HS subscription.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-04-30 11:48am

Absolutely rediculous. You can peruse their Books Comics and Television forums and find any number of EU author's work assailed by fans in a far worse way than we have ever done to Ms. Traviss. When Walter John Williuams began posting on TOS he appeared to welcome criticism and the mods didn't worry themselves about it. So it can't be simply because an author is making himself availiable that the mods have gone all "VIPs are protected from any forms of criticism, only heaps of praise will be tolerated. I suggest learning the language she made up." shit that's coming from the mods in regards to Traviss. Dark Moss and JTS are simply continuing to practice the rediculous double standard they have when it comes to criticizing LFL employees and authors. Intrestingly enough, Moose and JTS are the mods that offer up the least about themselves in Profiles or discussions. They want to remain strictly anonymous.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 12:00pm

Now would be a great time to elevate this to Lucasfilm management. The question merely becomes one of strategy. This is, quite naturally, an issue for their licensing SBU to tackle, since essentially we're talking about a reduced revenue stream from licensed products. The trick is merely one of getting in touch with the right executive, and pointing out the revenue drain this sort of bizarre behavior on the part of authors and Sw.com administrators is taking.

By the way, there seems to be a bizarre trend in this thread of regarding me as something of a Hyperspace expert, and so in response to that, I'd like to quickly point out that I have no Hyperspace account, have never had a Hyperspace account, have no interest in getting a Hyperspace account, and aside from occasional glances at the SW.com site, know virtually nothing about their Hyperspace product.

On another note-I find my interest in this event piqued from as much a business point of view as from the perspective of an SW enthusiast. It annoys the heck out of me to see one of my favorite companies (Lucasfilm-a firm I greatly admire for shaking up the Hollywood system in the 1970s) loosing revenue and alienating once-loyal customers as a result of the stupidity of a few low-level front line CSRs and content writers. This actaully ties into some research I've been doing on the unbelievably destructive power an improperly trained or supervised CSR can have on a brand, and could conceivably be a case study in such a paper. I'd be fascinated to know how much Dark Moose and Karen Traviss are paid, and what type of management system Lucasfilm has in place to guide them.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-30 12:01pm

It's even more simple. Moose is a e-buddy and fan of Traviss. Whenever she screams about Talifans or such, he comes around and goes "yadda yadda yadda", "you're so majestically right, your perfect mandofanian sense of logic is iffefutable and those talifanz, they shall suffer...".

I've read Traviss LJ. If that's the same "Dark Moose", boooy... he's a real lackey. And what, really, could one await from a lackey of a person, who issues death threats on a regular basis to those who are disagreeing with her?

So Lord Poe, your "Little Palpatines" may have just found the mark of one of little Palps' lackeys

By placing his own lackeys as governors over every planet in the Republic...
ROTS, pg 204, Hardcover Edition

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-30 12:20pm

What I find strange is that a moderator can block an entire blog, IMO that's something that would suit the administrators better (it's a service you pay for after all).

Stas Bush wrote:And what, really, could one await from a lackey of a person, who issues death threats on a regular basis to those who are disagreeing with her

This is something that I find worrysome. Doesn't Ms. Traviss realize that there are many disturbed people out there that could take the sort of things she posts in her LJ literally?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-30 12:36pm

Walter John Williams

I've heard of him in connection to some silly McEwok (Hodge) debacle. What else happened, since he's not been mentioned as being on the OS in recent times?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-30 12:40pm

Doesn't Ms. Traviss realize

If she did, she'd not post stuff like that. I mean, come on, how many debaters online, if seriously irritated with somebody, would say "My gut feeling is that you have to be killed" or "My emotions are such that you should die" or "My emotions are such that I want to rip out your trachea"? That is something out-of-norm. Mostly people would just use harmless profanity, calling the person who aggravates them a worthless motherfucker. Not the case with Traviss, though. She goes beyond profanity. And that's what is really strange.

Actually that could be seen from, you know... people who don't have a life outside the Net. They're usually the ones who wish their opponent death in one way or other.

Bothering.

Tiriol · Post by **Tiriol** » 2006-04-30 01:51pm

Stas Bush wrote:
Doesn't Ms. Traviss realize
If she did, she'd not post stuff like that. I mean, come on, how many debaters online, if seriously irritated with somebody, would say "My gut feeling is that you have to be killed" or "My emotions are such that you should die" or "My emotions are such that I want to rip out your trachea"? That is something out-of-norm. Mostly people would just use harmless profanity, calling the person who aggravates them a worthless motherfucker. Not the case with Traviss, though. She goes beyond profanity. And that's what is really strange.

Actually that could be seen from, you know... people who don't have a life outside the Net. They're usually the ones who wish their opponent death in one way or other.

Bothering.

Somewhat reminds me of Darkstar, really, although someone already had made that mental connection.

And I think RThurmont is right - some higher-up should be notified and told that an author and some of her fanatical fans are alienating SW enthusiasts with their antics, tantrums and abuses of power and thus diminishing the revenues of LF. I'm not so sure, though, how much the higher-ups would care, since only select few are involved in this (or that is how it appears to me) abused debate. But they might be interested to see how a paid author spends most of her time making vague death threats and insults against those who disagree with her and how the said author tries to change the canon to fit her vision.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 03:56pm

Whawoah...back the fuck up. Karen Traviss has issued DEATH THREATS?

That's a fireable offense at most major corporations. I really want to know more about this Karen Traviss character, as I think I've just officially selected this bizarre incident as a case study in the aforementioned research project I'm conducting. An employee...making death threats to customers...and getting away with it...all I can say is "WOAH FUCK."

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-30 04:12pm

RThurmont wrote:Whawoah...back the fuck up. Karen Traviss has issued DEATH THREATS?

That's a fireable offense at most major corporations. I really want to know more about this Karen Traviss character, as I think I've just officially selected this bizarre incident as a case study in the aforementioned research project I'm conducting. An employee...making death threats to customers...and getting away with it...all I can say is "WOAH FUCK."

Check them out in this thread:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... c&start=50

Karen Traviss wrote:Something got right up our collective noses. So we vented our spleen to each other, unable to target the object of our shared rage - not with the ordnance we preferred, anyway - and felt a bit better. And it's at times like this that I say thank God for Mando'a.

Developing the language has saved my sanity more than once. Driven to the brink of ripping someone's trachea out of their pitifully unworthy neck, I can now step back from the precipice by rushing to my spreadsheet and creating a few more choice insults and anatomically impossible instructions.

And:

Karen Traviss wrote:The name Talifan might be more apt than I ever thought, and [info]rc_ghost's splendid phrase internet madrasas equally revealing.

Two key elements leap out at me: the insular nature of the deviant group, their previous normality until exposed to some idea or personal influence, and the "downward spiral" effect of them vying with each other to be more extreme - best described by former members of the Baader Meinhof gang in frank TV interviews.

This is clearly a universal phenomenon, but right now I'm not sure if I'm looking at one syndrome or a mix of aberrant behaviours manifesting similar symptoms. The internet element is a significant one in this, I feel. I get a whiff of Aspergers, OCD, religious orthodoxy, plain old normal human susceptibility, and a dozen other things.

And, yes, some of them - maybe most - might just be normal humans,and thus easily led and prone to conform.

Just like the clones*, in fact. How ironic.

But I need to unravel this.

I'll keep you abreast of what other dingbattery I unearth (every tie-in writer has a stack, I know) but at the moment I'm on the hunt for any academic who's done research into the psychology of obsession and anti-social behaviour among fans, be that in the context rock stars, actors or just grunt hacks like me.

Fascinating. Utterly fascinating. My gut reaction is that they all need garotting, but my rational self finds it all...fascinating.

(*Except the clones have sex lives. Chicks dig armour. )

As an added benefit, if you're doing an academic paper you could send it to her, since she seems desperate for academia to recognize the influence of "Talifans" and to explore the psychology of those involved in this affair.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-04-30 04:59pm

I'm not sure I even want her to know that I exist. Lest she appear at my office with a chain...

In all probability, if I write this paper, she'll be referred to as a "content author" at a "mid-sized entertainment company."

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-04-30 07:02pm

Dark Moose didn't feel my supplication to his orders was enough, so he made the mistake of asking me if he was ABSOLUTELY clear. Here is my reply, as I'm certain you won't see it in "Blog Feedback" (Unless its heavily edited, anyway):

You know what? My Hyp membership is up for renewal anyway, so don't bother re-opening my blog or my posting priviliges. It's not worth going through your double standard Modding and sucking up to authors you have a hard on for. I'd rather not pay to see your embarassing sycophantic drooling over Traviss. It's pretty pathetic that Lucasfilm Ltd allows little power trippers like you mod their official forums. I'd tell you to shove your head up your ass, but you'd have to ask Traviss to move over first.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-30 07:09pm

Stas Bush wrote:If she did, she'd not post stuff like that. I mean, come on, how many debaters online, if seriously irritated with somebody, would say "My gut feeling is that you have to be killed" or "My emotions are such that you should die" or "My emotions are such that I want to rip out your trachea"? That is something out-of-norm. Mostly people would just use harmless profanity, calling the person who aggravates them a worthless motherfucker. Not the case with Traviss, though. She goes beyond profanity. And that's what is really strange.

Part of it may stem from a style-over-substance mentality: from what I've seen, she's polite, superficially courteous, and overtly well-written. She doesn't want to "stoop" to flaming, so, instead, she completely skips over the stage of a discussion which may involve flames, and goes straight over the top, to the death threats.