"Obi Wan Once thought as you do."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-17 08:10am

Yes, Rick McCallum has said that only about three -at the most five- years pass between II and III.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-17 08:20am

Ok!

But then there will be a very big hole between Episode III and ANH.

Do you remember that scene when Vader tells to the imperial officer -aboard Tantive IV- something like that:

"Don't worry about the Senate, the Emperor just dissolved it!"

Why would the tyrannic Palpy wait almost 20 years to do this?

5 years between the episodes is not enough.

I'd suggest make more sub-episodes...Episode III/a, Episode III/b etc.

That would please everyone, wouldn't it?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-17 08:47am

Things change in 20 years. You forgot the reason given in the same scene:

"Impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"

"The regional governors now have direct control over their territories; fear will keep the ... in line. Fear of this battlestation"

Ellipses in between the and in line because I can't remember what was said.

10 years is way too long. That would make Anakin thirty by the time of Episode III, that's just not on- and as Lucas said Vader was only in his forties at the time of the OT.

Three to five years is perfect.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-12-17 11:58am

I think it was "fear will keep the local systems in line"

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-12-17 12:19pm

I think the main characters will be split, and that Obi and Anakin will fight somewhere away from the final battle of Mace and Dooku. The Jedi will be massacered and Obi will not be there because he is dealing with Anakin. That is why Obi survives the purge and why Vader say's "You should not have come back."

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-12-17 12:59pm

You know from ANH I get the feeling that Vader at some point had Obi-Wan beaten and ready to kill him but let him go and told Palpy that he had killed him. Just the way Tarkin seems so surprised that Obi-Wan is alive and Vader says "you should not have come back"

Maybe they duel twice? Maybe Obi-Wan didn't actually put Vader in the suit but blames himself anyway? We know he blames himself for training Anakin even though it was blatantly Qui-Gons fault with that death bed promise. Maybe I'm just way off base.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-18 02:03am

I don't think Obi-Wan will actually manage to defeat Anakin. It'll be a cruel twist of fate that leads to Anakin's injuries. Think about it- if Obi-Wan can defeat Anakin in a straight up fight it makes absolute bullshit out of the idea that they need Luke at all.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-18 02:12am

Vympel wrote:I don't think Obi-Wan will actually manage to defeat Anakin. It'll be a cruel twist of fate that leads to Anakin's injuries. Think about it- if Obi-Wan can defeat Anakin in a straight up fight it makes absolute bullshit out of the idea that they need Luke at all.

No!

Anakin is not umdefeatable! He lost his hand against Dooku...

Vader will be undefeatable... So Obi-wan may defeat Anakin who will be then Vader. Then we need Luke!

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-18 02:24am

Boba Fett wrote:
Vader will be undefeatable... So Obi-wan may defeat Anakin who will be then Vader. Then we need Luke!

Nope. Three years on in Episode III Anakin will be a Jedi Knight, and much more hard-core than the punce we saw get owned by Dooku in two seconds flat. He will kill Dooku, and will almost kill Obi-Wan.

Vader in the suit simply isn't as formidable as Vader without the suit. He can't move like say Dooku does in Episode II.

I doubt helmeted Vader will cross sabres with anyone in Episode III, though I would very much like to see it.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-18 03:28am

Vympel wrote:
Boba Fett wrote:
Vader will be undefeatable... So Obi-wan may defeat Anakin who will be then Vader. Then we need Luke!
Nope. Three years on in Episode III Anakin will be a Jedi Knight, and much more hard-core than the punce we saw get owned by Dooku in two seconds flat. He will kill Dooku, and will almost kill Obi-Wan.

Vader in the suit simply isn't as formidable as Vader without the suit. He can't move like say Dooku does in Episode II.

I doubt helmeted Vader will cross sabres with anyone in Episode III, though I would very much like to see it.

I agree with this...but Vader and Palpy will hunt and kill the Jedis not Anakin and Palpy. So maybe Vader isn't so crippled.

Due to limitations of the movie-technic we never saw Vader in full combat mode...but according to SoTE he kills assasin droids in seconds as practice.
So maybe he can move pretty fast in the suit.

On the other hand we saw two duel with Vader...

First one with Obi-wan. He was an old man and fought like and old man, so Vader didn't have to show what he's really capable of.

The second and third times he duelled with his own son, who he rather wanted to turn to the dark side then to kill.
So again he didn't use 100% of his combat capabilities.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-18 03:30am

Damn I miss the edit button!!!

It was three duel!!!

*must remind myself: learn math*

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-18 03:35am

Boba Fett wrote:
I agree with this...but Vader and Palpy will hunt and kill the Jedis not Anakin and Palpy. So maybe Vader isn't so crippled.

That's only if you attach the name 'Darth Vader' inextricably to his suit. It needn't be that way- the moment he goes over to the Dark Side he will take on a Sith name- he won't have the suit- but he'll be dressed in black and will have his crimson sabre

Due to limitations of the movie-technic we never saw Vader in full combat mode...but according to SoTE he kills assasin droids in seconds as practice.
So maybe he can move pretty fast in the suit.

On the other hand we saw two duel with Vader...

First one with Obi-wan. He was an old man and fought like and old man, so Vader didn't have to show what he's really capable of.

The second and third times he duelled with his own son, who he rather wanted to turn to the dark side then to kill.
So again he didn't use 100% of his combat capabilities.

I quite like that idea. I would like to see Vader in the suit hand Mace Windu his ass for example. That would be mad.

Vader was never in any real trouble against Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan couldn't have beaten him (obviously) and so he just gave up and got cut down. In fact, you gotta wonder ... Obi-Wan only decided to do it with Luke watching. Fucking Jedi scum, making Luke hate his own father. I am not impressed by Yoda or Obi-Wan in the OT. They're fucking liars and schemers.

As for Luke, he was certainly in control in the first 2/3 of the fight (i.e. in the carbonite chamber and before Luke gets blown out the window). However, on the gantry before he chops Luke's hand off, Vader throws an absolute power psycho and just beats him down, no finesse at all. This could've been just a tactic, or it could've been the limit of his capabilities.

When Luke fights Vader above Endor for the last time, Vader doesn't seem to be making any great effort. Luke was right- he couldnt' bring himself to kill Luke before on Bespin, and he couldn't do it at Endor either. He was holding back because there was still some good in him.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-18 03:46am

Vympel wrote:
Boba Fett wrote:
I agree with this...but Vader and Palpy will hunt and kill the Jedis not Anakin and Palpy. So maybe Vader isn't so crippled.
That's only if you attach the name 'Darth Vader' inextricably to his suit. It needn't be that way- the moment he goes over to the Dark Side he will take on a Sith name- he won't have the suit- but he'll be dressed in black and will have his crimson sabre

Due to limitations of the movie-technic we never saw Vader in full combat mode...but according to SoTE he kills assasin droids in seconds as practice.
So maybe he can move pretty fast in the suit.

On the other hand we saw two duel with Vader...

First one with Obi-wan. He was an old man and fought like and old man, so Vader didn't have to show what he's really capable of.

The second and third times he duelled with his own son, who he rather wanted to turn to the dark side then to kill.
So again he didn't use 100% of his combat capabilities.
I quite like that idea. I would like to see Vader in the suit hand Mace Windu his ass for example. That would be mad.

Vader was never in any real trouble against Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan couldn't have beaten him (obviously) and so he just gave up and got cut down. In fact, you gotta wonder ... Obi-Wan only decided to do it with Luke watching. Fucking Jedi scum, making Luke hate his own father. I am not impressed by Yoda or Obi-Wan in the OT. They're fucking liars and schemers.

As for Luke, he was certainly in control in the first 2/3 of the fight (i.e. in the carbonite chamber and before Luke gets blown out the window). However, on the gantry before he chops Luke's hand off, Vader throws an absolute power psycho and just beats him down, no finesse at all. This could've been just a tactic, or it could've been the limit of his capabilities.

When Luke fights Vader above Endor for the last time, Vader doesn't seem to be making any great effort. Luke was right- he couldnt' bring himself to kill Luke before on Bespin, and he couldn't do it at Endor either. He was holding back because there was still some good in him.

Yes you're right, I've attached the name Vader to the suit! Point there!

On the second part I totally agree with you and you with me...

Then Lucas must show at least one helmeted Vader duel against a worthy opponent, where Vader can show what he can really do in that armor!

Sadly it won't happen...

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-18 03:59am

Boba Fett wrote:
Sadly it won't happen...

Perhaps- we do know that James Earl Jones is going to be getting 5-7 minutes worth of lines. That's quite a lot when you think about it (it'd be interesting for someone to do a count of how much he gets in the OT per movie). So either he's speaking and not really doing anything ... combat related for 5-7 minutes worth of speaking, or we get to see him throw down!

"Your powers are weak, bald man!" (Vader to Windu)

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2002-12-18 04:22am

LOL

*Windu to Vader*

"Maybe...but Padme likes my "bald" head...*

*Vader slices Windu into two pieces*

"Damn...Palpy always said never trust anyone from Naboo..."

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-12-19 12:03am

Vympel wrote:I don't think Obi-Wan will actually manage to defeat Anakin. It'll be a cruel twist of fate that leads to Anakin's injuries. Think about it- if Obi-Wan can defeat Anakin in a straight up fight it makes absolute bullshit out of the idea that they need Luke at all.

I agree with you there. Anakin fights aggressively and Obi-wan fights defensively. Anakin probably won't be able to beat Obi-wan, but Obi-wan won't be able to do much except block.