A SW history without the EU

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-08-28 06:25am

I was trying to do this in my head earlier... Establishing a history of the SW universe using only references from the movies. I realized though, that I also wanted to use the novelizations and the radio play as well but can't find my OT books or the radio play that an ex gave me and it's been a long while since I read or listened to either.

So what would a loose history/timeline be using only the three sources?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-08-28 07:20am

Go download Time Tales

It's got all it's references indicated by the source.

You'll cut out most of the timeline, but there you go

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-08-28 08:24am

It's been awhile, but doesn't the ROTJ Radio Drama shoehorn in a considerable amount of EU material? (since it, unlike the previous installments, was made long after the movies were completed)

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-08-30 04:53pm

I don't mean to de-rail the thead, but I'd like to point out that based on G-canon material alone, we know the oldest Republic came into being ~25,000 years ago, but the incarnation that exists (and falls) in the prequels is only 1,000 years old.
There may only have been one fall/reestablishment, but it's possible that there may have been more.

Lucas' comments have no official place, but his idea that the Sith once ruled the entire galaxy makes it likely that at some unspecified point in time, the Sith took control of the majority of the civilized galaxy, but lost control 1,000 years before the movie (after which the latest incarnation of the Republic was established.

Edit: The Sith rule is also supported (though not concrete) by dialogue exchanged during the Mace/Sidious and Yoda/Sidious duels, so it's more than interview comments by Lucas.
Also, "1,000 generations" is a bit ambiguous. How long is a "generation" in SW, where there's such a diversity of species? Granted, it's spoken by a human (Obi-Wan), so it supports the 25,000 year number.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-01 12:20pm

The ROTS novelisation also points out that the Jedi Order existed before the Republic (which is twice said to have only been around for 1,000 years) and will exist when the Republic is "dust."

At least that's what the Jedi and the Loyal Opposition (Senators) say to each other in their respective counsels.

Pick your retcon for old Ben's statement in Star Wars...

Edit: Well I guess you could consider material in the ROTS novelisation to be "EU" (that isn't in the movie), but still G-level. Sorry for any confusion there.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-09-03 07:13am

It would seem that "the Republic", when spoken, refers only to the latest thousand year old government.

There's still the question of what things were like before this current Republic (discussion disregarding the EU). Does anyone have links to Lucas' quotes about the Sith ruling the galaxy, and the Jedi stopping them?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-03 01:15pm

Apparently that (the Sith ruling the galaxy) was something brand new (though I immediately thought of TOTJ when I heard it in the theater, I guess it wasn't).

The only thing out of line, ironically, is the first mention of the Old Republic in the movies, Old Ben's line about it!

Well, Lucas still has time to alter this for his 2007 release. But then again, I am not sure which the Flanned One enjoys more, tweaking his movies, or getting people to jump through hoops to smooth out the inconsistencies...

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-03 01:25pm

Why this obsession with altering that line? I understood it when I realised he said "this" republic, not "the" republic. There were more than one.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-09-04 06:35am

You still have to admit, the idea of the Sith Lords ruling over the entire galaxy at some point in time is far more epic than the EU idea of the Sith being incompetent bastards who spring up and, each time, get their butts kicked (typically due to infighting) after being a threat for less than 50 years.
I love some of the EU, tbh, but much of it dilutes the epic scale of the movies.

Mace going "The oppression of the Sith will never return!" and stuff.

Anyone with me on this, even partially?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-04 07:24am

VT-16 wrote:Why this obsession with altering that line? I understood it when I realised he said "this" republic, not "the" republic. There were more than one.

The ROTS novelisation makes it clear (iirc) that "the Old Republic" "this Republic" and "the Republic" are all the same, 1,000 year entity that arose long after the Jedi Order. No mention at all of an ancient 25,000 year old Republic, as assumed in all the previous material before 2002.

Someone who owns the novel feel free to provide the relevant quotes of course...

(I'd add that Tarkin talks about the "Old Republic" in ANH as if it were still existing in recent memory)

I agree with you Cykeisme.

GeneralTacticus · Post by **GeneralTacticus** » 2006-09-05 03:07am

The opening says "This is how twenty-five millenia come to a close". There is definitely some support for a Republic older than 1000 years in there.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-09-05 03:49am

Quite possibly. I had to look around for the quote:

This is how twenty-five millennia come to a close. Corruption and treachery have crushed a thousand years of peace. This is not just the end of a republic; night is falling on civilization itself.

This is the twilight of the Jedi.

The end starts now.

It could just as easily be speaking of the Jedi, rather than the Republic though. In any case, it's not really the end of either. Is this supposed to be from the point of view of the Journal of the Whills again I wonder?

Anyway, thanks for reminding me, I'd completely forgotten...