Need info of the frequency fallacy regarding SW shielding

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-07 09:04am

So is there anything directly contradicting anykind of frequency weakness similar to ST shielding in SW shields? Or that frequencies just because of some reason cannot be used to bypass SW shielding.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-07 09:11am

There is not an inkling of even the slightest infintesimally small scrap of evidence that Star Wars shields and weapons oscillate at any particular frequency. You don't need to do anything. The burden of proof is on the trektards (who I assume you're debating) to prove that SW shields are 'frequency based'. They won't be able to.

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-07 09:32am

Yup, a Trekkie,he is basing his argument on the fact that Ion Cannons according to the Essential Guides pass thru shields and that SW shielding does not block all frequencies from going thru.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-07 09:38am

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:Yup, a Trekkie,he is basing his argument on the fact that Ion Cannons according to the Essential Guides pass thru shields and that SW shielding does not block all frequencies from going thru.

Defy him to find a single scrap of official SW evidence that says Star Wars shields and technology have anything to do with frequencies. It's his burden of proof, and he can't meet it. He's committing the common Trekkie tactic of assuming all technology must be equivalent. There is no canon or official evidence that mentions frequencies in any way shape or form.

It's also a non-sequitur to assume that because Ion Cannons are not affected by shields, they must be frequency based. He hasn't proven anything.

Main page of SD.net also dismisses the frequency crap:

"Frequency of vulnerability. It is often assumed that Imperial shields have a frequency to which they are vulnerable, much like Federation shields. Since no operating frequency has ever been mentioned or referenced in any official or canon source, and since the cultists give no justification for this claim other than the fact that Federation shields have a vulnerable frequency (thus assuming that Imperial shields and Federation shields use similar technology), there is no reason to grant any credence to this claim."

Sadly, this particular trekkie you're debating doesn't get his idiotic escape clause.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-01-07 09:39am

Shields are in a constant state, The Ray shields must be brought down to even use long-rang communcation, They don't click on and off thousands of times per second as due ST shields(A great weakness)

Ion Cannons due it on raw power + the fact that a Tubolaser will just destroy but a Ion-cannon throughs raw energy down conduicts and wiring, Its designed to fry a ships systems so they CANT do as they can for turbolasers(IE roll the ship and expose a fresh shield)

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-07 03:41pm

The essential guide for weapons and tech according to him directly says that IC's pass thru shields. But anyways the main point is that there is no evidence that SW shielding would have a frequency weakness which is the factor that allows IC shots to pass thru.

Another point he brought up that the essential guide or some other official source mentions that shields can be adjusted to stop IC shots but then they could not stop laser shots at all, he allso uses this as basis for his frequency argument.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-07 05:48pm

Ofcourse he is incorrect about that, since in EU novels we see ships withstand ion cannon fire from other ships, the ion canon in TESB was probably just powerfull enough to punch through without problem.

Even so, that does not prove frequencies in the shields at all, it's an assumption on his side, one can as well attribute it to something else in the weapon.

========================
Pg. 307: Over a hundred starboard ion cannons fired back at the Freedom in a display so massive it appeared as if sheets of blue energy had erupted from the Lusankya's side. The Imperial Star Destroyer's shields imploded, leaving azur lightning to skip and arc all over the ship's surface. Drysso saw secondary explosions ripple through the smaller ship's port gun decks, letting the Freedom had been badly hurt.
========================
-The Bacta War

Whoopsie, the Star Destroyers shields held for a second and then they where forcefully downed.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-07 05:58pm

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:The essential guide for weapons and tech according to him directly says that IC's pass thru shields. But anyways the main point is that there is no evidence that SW shielding would have a frequency weakness which is the factor that allows IC shots to pass thru.

Another point he brought up that the essential guide or some other official source mentions that shields can be adjusted to stop IC shots but then they could not stop laser shots at all, he allso uses this as basis for his frequency argument.

Unless he provides an actual quote from those books that actually mentions "frequencies" most people here would recommend the following response to this idiot trekkie: Bull-shit.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-07 06:37pm

The EGWT does not mention frequencies, I've checked, however it does say that the shields can withstand energy weapons(which come in all manner of forms and frequencies), it's just the ion-cannon thats different somehow.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-07 06:41pm

Actually Mr. Young's research on the matter shows that the shield held for a split second when the ion blast hit the ISD. What must have then happened was that the ion blast was simply overwhelimingly powerful (think DS2 vs. Liberty

) and the shields just buckled, and the disabling abilities of the ion cannon took hold. No frequency.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-07 07:44pm

Rightous Fist Of Heaven wrote:Yup, a Trekkie,he is basing his argument on the fact that Ion Cannons according to the Essential Guides pass thru shields and that SW shielding does not block all frequencies from going thru.

Appeal to ignorance. He assumes that, because no one knows why ion cannons can pass through shields, that it must be frequency-related. Unfortunately for him, Star Wars shields, with the exception of planetary shields, are hull-hugging and do not have a regular shape, so there is no resonant frequency associated with them. Star Wars shields are more like energy dissipation fields, with no discrete boundaries. A bolt passing through such a field will gradually lose energy until it simple becomes harmless. Your Trekkie friend is basically claiming that, if you "choose the right frequency," you can run through a gravitational field without being accelerated.

For, dare I say, more accurate/consistent information on Star Wars technology, read the Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-01-07 11:43pm

Go to Tech Commentaries. Saxton has broken down the PIC hit.

Star Wars has two types of sheilds. Ray sheilding which stops most energy weapons. Particle sheilds which stop physical damage. I have not seen evidence in either cannon or EU that shows Ions 'passing' through the sheilds. Ions impact and overwhelm the sheilds. They're designed to fuck up systems.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-08 02:20am

Maybe this idiot might want to consider that something that is massless (TL bolts) might require alternate methods to defend against than a charged particle weapon (ion cannons) ? Or if we go with the "charged particle/plasma" theory, that your weapon could have different charges?

Basically, he's attributing the "pass through shields" bit to being ONLY explained by frequency. It could also simply be a matter of requiring a different mechanism for defense against.

By this same logic, the fact ray shields don't block physical projectiles could be proof that ray shields operate on frequencies.

And barring that, one might point out the TESB radio dramatization. When a star destroyer is hit by ion fire from the ground based weapon, its EXPLICITLY mentioned that the "shields overloaded/were overloading" after being hit, and before any loss of control or damage was done. Canon trumps official (By hierarchy, the radio dramatizations are second-tier canon, superior to the EU)

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-01-08 05:13am

The only place that I've ever encountered mentions of Star Wars shields or weapons having any kind of frequency is in one of the X-Wing books, where a sniper rifle and a TIE's lasers had quick modifications done specifically for the purpose of sending out short bursts of data.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-08 05:24am

Lord of the Farce wrote:The only place that I've ever encountered mentions of Star Wars shields or weapons having any kind of frequency is in one of the X-Wing books, where a sniper rifle and a TIE's lasers had quick modifications done specifically for the purpose of sending out short bursts of data.

In both cases the lasers were modified to act like comlinks (not surprising, since the massless TL particles can decay to emit photons - ie visible light) - in neither case is this indicative that shields operate on frequencie - these were special (and SPECIFIC) modifications to weapons for a specific purpose I(and which largely negated their user iin other purposeS)

Rightous Fist Of Heaven · Post by **Rightous Fist Of Heaven** » 2003-01-08 08:56am

Thanks very much for this info, i think after i post these points he will drop this matter very quickly.

Andras · Post by **Andras** » 2003-01-08 01:04pm

Another proof for you-

When the Destroyer Droids fired at GQ and OW in TPM, the reflected shots were absorbed by the shields. If there was a frequency window for the shots to exit, they would have passed through the same window after being reflected back.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-01-08 01:09pm

Gentlemen, I do believe that we have a winner!

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-08 03:09pm

The Frequency Weaknesss of Trek shields (at least, Federation shields) is witnessed any time you hear Worf or someone say, "Shields down to 80%, damage on decks 12 and 14", or the like. For every given time period that the shields are "on", there's a much shorter time period where they are "off"... that is what is meant by "frequency" (I'm sure that if you get downright technical, you can find a "frequency" for just about anything). It is this frequency that the Borg take advantage of... they manage to slip their transporters or their cutting lasers in between the minute periods that the shields are "off". This is not a particularly amazing feat... the Duras sisters managed to do the same thing in Generations. In fact, one could go so far as to hypothesize that the only unique ability that the Borg have is a capability to detect such frequency weaknesses in target vessels.

Furthermore, we have seen, from the Feds ability (after their initial encounter with the Borg) to block Borg transporters and weapons with their shields, that this frequency weakness is not absolute.

And yet even further... the Feds have shields that do NOT have that frequency weakness. These shields are not used because they also prevent Fed weapons fire from getting out. Thus, we see that the reason the Feds use a frequency-based system is to allow their weaponry to be used. The Imperials do NOT do this with their shield systems... their shields are either one-way or they open tiny holes in the shields to allow weapons fire to get out (depending on the source you use). Thus we see that there is no significant frequency weakness in Imperial shields for the Borg to take advantage of, else the Imps would utilize it for their own benefit.