Force Pushes, and their effect on people and Jedi

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Several times in the TPM we see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan push droids to the ground, which apparently kills them. Its seems something as durable as a droid would be unaffected by being thrown a few feet onto the ground, but these ones were down and out, showing that a Force Push carries considerable power. Now something that can pick up and kill a droid who is made of metal should be more than lethal to humans right? I can imagine that that kind of force would rupture oragans, ad cause massive internal bleeding. So then why does Obi-wan, Qui-Gon, Maul, Dooku, and Anakin, all surviverepeatedpushes through out TPM and AOTC? Is it some sort of Jedi thing? Can they reduce the power of the push via the Force?

Also note that in TPM all the pushes from Maul knocked around the Jedi only a few feet, but in AOTC Dooku's shove throws Anakin a FAR greater distance. Could this be due to the diminishing power of the Jedi in the AOTC era? But then why didn't Dooku even try to shove Yoda? Is he just too powerful?

It would be interesting to gauge the power of the Force push on Jeid, Sith, and droids, and then see how much damage they could do to a human.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Several times in the TPM we see Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan push droids to the ground, which apparently kills them.

Thou canst kill that which doth not live.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

I remember Mike analyzed it and came to the conclusion that the Jedi are somehow disabling the droids' internal parts with the Force. Maybe the Force push is just to prevent them from firing, and the real thing that "kills" them is the disabling their internal mechanisms. Or maybe they're early POS model droids.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

And as for Maul's pushing the Jedi only a few feet, notice how he loves to have lightsaber fights to eliminate his enemies while Dooku prefers using the Force to do so. I personally believe Dooku's ability to use the Force is far greater than Maul's, but there is no real evidence supporting that. Maul's Force pushes in the lightsaber fight were just to aid him in the duel, IMO.

[Darth Fanboy]

Ive watched my TPM dvd a few times and I can't really tell how far the droids were pushed in the hangar... any ideas?

[Lord_Xerxes]

For what it's worth, several EU sources (like some of the books, the RPG books, etc) state that Force users have the ability to absorb or dissipate energy to some degree. That could be a feasible reason as to why the Force pushes don't seem to be so affective.

Another consideration might be, in Dooku's case...he's already got Anakin severaly wounded. Why kill him with a meager push? Perhaps because he wants the pleasure of casting the final blow himself with his lightsaber. The same may hold true for Maul. Both Sith took bride in their skill with their blades.

[Kurgan]

I know its not anywhere near canon, but in the Jedi Knight series of games, various Force powers can reduce the effect of push attacks.

In Mysteries of the Sith, for example, Force Defense reduced the distance you were pushed, if you had mana. In Jedi Outcast, Pull acted as a natural counter to Push. Absorb also could limit or stop the power under various circumstances.

[FX]

Maul was using the pushes to give him extra room, not hurt people. He was very good with his saber, but vs. both Obi Wan and Qui gon he was over matched. Maul used the pushes and gave lots of ground to separate them and was then able to defeat Qui gon.

[Coaan]

Maul was using the pushes to give him extra room, not hurt people. He was very good with his saber, but vs. both Obi Wan and Qui gon he was over matched. Maul used the pushes and gave lots of ground to separate them and was then able to defeat Qui gon.

Both Qui Gon and Obi wan only started to overpower him when he backed(Or flipped) to the reactor door....had be stayed in the open and in the hanger then I have no doubt that Maul would have taken them both down because Maul was far superiour, He only just broke a sweat as he finished off Qui Gon for jeeps sake....both Jin and Wan were heavily sweating when they were dueling on the platforms

And Wan only defeated Maul when he himself dipped into the dark side ...which is what I assume to be the look on Maul's face near the end

[Sir Sirius]

He only just broke a sweat as he finished off Qui Gon for jeeps sake....both Jin and Wan were heavily sweating when they were dueling on the platforms.

Since Maul isn't human the sweating can't be used to compared to that of humans.

[Coaan]

Hm...true..

I still reckon that Maul was far more advanced in lightsaber technique and combat than either of them were...but that speaks for itself

[Mad]

Just a couple quotes here:

SW Trilogy, pg. 454:
But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his
arms to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful--the lightning
rebounded from his touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the
shocks came with such speed and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them, convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.

I assume this is from the RotJ novel.. whoever originally gave me that quote must've had an edition with the trilogy in one large book. Anyway, it describes basically what Yoda did in AotC, though Luke couldn't keep it up when the Emperor put more effort into it.

The real key is the first sentence: anything Force-generated can be Force-repelled. That would include Force-pushes. (Canon proof of what Jedi Knight players already take for granted.)

In combat, a Jedi is using precog to anticipate his/her opponent's movements. When a Force-attack is coming, the Jedi can prepare a Force-counter, but the strength of the enemy may prevent the Jedi from preparing a strong enough defense.

AOTC VD page 63:
in advanced lightsaber combat, the Force plays a role larger than physical skill alone. Combatants use force powers for attack and defense, while Sith attempt to break a Jedi's inner spirit.

This one's just a confirmation that the Force is used on multiple levels during combat, including defense.

So a Jedi surviving a Force-push can easily be attributed to a Force-defense. Of course, Maul may not have been able to gather a strong enough Force-push to kill in the heat of combat, either. (It appears that he had to break combat momentarially to throw a rock to open a door.) But it was enough that the Jedi couldn't fully defend from it.

One should also keep in mind that we don't know how long Maul had to wait for an opening to make that move. If he did it at another time, it could've failed as the Jedi successfully blocks the attack, and left an opening for the Jedi to exploit, so he had to time the Force-attack just right.

[nightmare]

It was already established in the EU that Jedi disables droids easily by affecting their internal components. One might add that Jedi would probably not have any qualms about killing droids, as opposed to living creatures.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Yep, Mad. Absorb and Dissipate, just like I'd mentioned earlier. I knew there were several EU sources for info on those Jedi powers, but I'd forgottenly completly about the ROTJ novelization quote that you threw up. So there's cannon evidence for Jedi's absorbtion and dissipation powers that you find listed in EU novels, books, and RPG books.

Basically, the power can work by either allowing some and not all of the energy to soak into you or your surroundings.

[Darth Yoshi]

I, Jedi gives a bit of detail about Force blocks.

Kyp struck at me again through the Force, but I expected it this time. I relaxed and let the Force energy over and through me. I absorbed enough of it to create a shield that split the attack. The fact that I didn't end up ground up against the wall surprised him.

From this quote, I believe that a Jedi can absorb the energy to do a counter push, deflecting the original attack like the Falcon's shields in the Hoth asteroid belt, allowing it to spill into the surrounding area.

[Lord_Xerxes]

Once again, another example of Absorb and dissipate. You absorb some of the energy, and let the rest soak into the surroundings.