I expected this to happen. Escape, excuse me if I don't address every single detail tonight, but it's late and I should really be winding down for the night.
I beg your pardon? Janus, tell me that you aren't quoting Count Dooku himself on the issue, and expect it to hold any water. Dooku -- legendary for hubris and arrogance -- and the exact quote was that he knew the weaknesses of "Ataru and it's ridiculous acrobatics". He obviously has no respect for the form -- despite the fact that it's user made him flee from battle twice; both on Separatist strongholds and one in a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force.
Sidious has a lot to say about Anakin's abilities and powers which everyone gobbles up, but if Dooku says anything he's apparently full of shit? Interesting how that works...
1. You assume that Dooku's statement is false.
2. You say he was forced to retreat by Ataru twice. You gloss over the details and fail to recognize the following: that the first time Dooku took his leave, he realized he could not take the time to defeat Yoda while the Republic was attacking Geonosis. This is called being smart. Even if he defeated Yoda that day, the battle would have been too hard earned, and then Mace or fifty clone troopers would have jumped him and his coup would be over. He's not so arrogant and stupid as to ruin his idealistic plan just to sate his ego. The incident on Vjun was broken off by Dooku because Anakin and Obi-Wan were infiltrating the castle and he would likely not be able to contend with all three when the time came. Again, he acted in prudence. He was not forced down by Yoda's Ataru mastery; nothing ever indicates such. In AotC film, Yoda's saber blitz does nothing to penetrate Dooku's defenses. If anything, Dooku shows the ability to keep up with Yoda unlike anyone else save maybe Sidious. And there's still that nagging suspicion that Yoda disarmed Sidious since the Sith Lord's suddenly missing a saber less than two minutes into their duel.
3. You also gloss over the fact that Dooku's been sparring with Yoda since before Mace Windu was a twinkle in his mother's eye, and his apprentice Qui-Gon was also a master in Ataru. To say he was unfamiliar with its purpose and use is folly. To say he was beaten by it is clearly false. And to assume that he does not know it enough to defeat it is worse. Makashi is the duellist' form, and its expertise is lightsaber fighting, period.
...Your point? General Grievous recognized all seven forms and managed to somewhat duplicate Vaapad (which is proven to be deadlier than Makashi itself). Does that mean he is suddenly able to outduel Mace or Dooku? I should think not, since Obi-Wan readily destroyed him in combat.
Poor comparison. Grievous was not a Force-sensitive combatant, but a hastily trained killing machine who operated best when he either attacked from secrecy or with shock troops supporting him. When he was alone against Jedi, he oftentimes got his just desserts. But if you expect me to believe that Grievous' dabbling in forms somehow compares with Dooku's saber mastery and his experience with other forms, you're sadly mistaken. The two operate nothing alike, and Grievous does not have the expertise, Force capability, and experience the former Jedi does.
No, Janus, he can't contend with him. We've already proven that Yoda has never fought Dooku on terms that he is looking to kill him or to take him out of the fight permenantly.
Actually, this is wrong. Yoda does say in Dark Rendezvous at one point that he loves Dooku enough to know he has to destroy him. And even then, Dooku can contest with him. It's only when Dooku notices that Anakin and Obi-Wan are very close via the holoscreens that he plays his trump card.
And the quote refers to that Mace might be the only one as his equal, not that he is perhaps Mace's equal.
Perhaps you should read it again:
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground[...]
Page 315.
That's a source as valid as anything written about Shatterpoint and Vaapad claiming that on neutral ground, Mace Windu is perhaps his only equal among the Jedi. Reread that sentence at least three times before you reply, please. Shatterpoint and Dark Rendezvous are both C-canon, and the point stands.
Furthermore, Vaapad in and of itself is stated to be the "deadliest form" and given its nature against darksiders, it would be in Mace's favor.
Vaapad is noted as "deadliest of all" by Yoda briefly in his conversation with Palpatine, although he notes also that it is inherently dangerous. Yoda's meaning is a bit ambiguous; he says its a powerful form, but unstable. However, since Yoda's never even practiced Vaapad, I can't exactly call him an expert. Vaapad is noted for its blinding speed and straddling the darkness without succumbing to it and this combined with Mace's shatterpoint makes him perhaps the best Jedi fighter in the Order next to Yoda and Dooku despite his young age.
However, there's nothing to support that Vaapad is better than Makashi overall. I believe that Mace's physical strength plays more to his favor than anything else, really, since he's a damn tank. However, Dooku's level of blade mastery is up there, and c-canon sources that call Vaapad "deadly" also call the creator a potential equal for the only living Makashi master.
So I really don't see where you think Mace can just smash Dooku. It's not like Dooku's going to get kicked on his ass and then be stupid enough to keep frying his own face.
Dooku certainly isn't superior to Mace in bladework.
1. On-screen depiction of his fighting shows otherwise. Movie canon >>>>> c-canon.
2. Even c-canon supports that Dooku is on Mace's level as of DR. Yoda cannot floor him easily, and no fight between them ever comes to conclusion since both battles were broken up beforehand. As for two Magnaguards waylaying Mace, BFD. Supervillains love cannonfodder, but that doesn't mean they can't fight when they need to. You citing that he let his droids distract Mace doesn't take away from his proven abilities; it simply reinforces how much you're willing to grab at to disprove his abilities. You compliment him with one word and slander him with another.
Dooku was tempted by Yoda to return to the light side. I never denied that Dooku didn't reciprocate Yoda's feelings, but the bottom line is that when it came down to a fight, Dooku sought to kill Yoda, whereas Yoda didn't seek to do the same.
This is wrong. Reread the battle. Yoda says he will destroy him shortly after that, out of love for him.
...Am I to assume then, that the disparity between Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos is likewise very slim? Even though no one wanted to screw with Ragnos on his death-bed, by all means, your logic still applies here. Dooku fears Yoda for a reason. It's an acknowledgement of superiority. The circumstances of the fight itself serve to show how far they are in power.
You seem to be full of poor comparisons lately.
Neither Naga Sadow, nor Ludo Kressh or the others of the Sith High Council so much as raised a blade to Ragnos for his century long reign. He was noted both in narration and by sources as the strongest of the strong in that era, and even before his spirit the two Sith lords bowed. This is in a society where if one can kill the other, he does so, through treachery or through combat.
You are comparing this with Dooku's respect for Yoda on a subconscious level (How he still refers to him as master) and how Dooku thinks about how much Yoda did for him to help him remain humble and how he wanted to save him from himself, and Dooku feared Sidious' jealousy, but he also feared that he was lost and that he could never return. So he struck at Yoda, meaning to kill him, and yet for all his chances, he never did. Even when he had the time to manage two attacks on Yoda (the first of which the jedi master is not even noted as being able to sense or move from) he doesn't kill his master.
And yet he still combats him twice and manages to keep pace with Yoda who can beat Mace Windu. Yoda who can beat Sidious. Yoda who can bitchsmack just about anybody so long as they're knee-level.
I don't see these two scenarios being alike, I'm sorry.
Comparing Dooku to Windu is pointless, especially in terms of a fight. Whilst both are prodigies, Windu ultimately wields the deadlier form and -- along with his ability to detect weaknesses - Vaapad's special properties allow it to negate dark side advantages.
1. Windu's form is noted as being deadly, yet c-canon notes that they are for all intents and purposes at least equals. Taking place after Shatterpoint chronologically and written afterwords, DR places a conditional "perhaps" besides Mace, btw. Keep that in mind. And shatterpoint and his "superconductor loop" don't make him superior to every Sith he fights; Dooku doesn't give in to the Dark Side and hack away like some moron. Likewise, Dooku wouldn't be so stupid as to try and shock Mace to death. It's not like Dooku doesn't know Mace Windu and didn't fight him before.
