Hypothetical Uberjedi/Sith

[Napoleon the Clown]

I'd imagine that adept Force users can enter into a state of meditation that allows them to be aware of what's going on around them while still letting portions of their mind get rest. Keep in mind that whales shut down half of their brain at a time so that it can go to sleep. I see no reason the same couldn't be accomplished through training with the Force. Not to mention "OMFGWTFPWN" precog that would tell the person when they could and could sleep with absolute security. This is a being that could write down the exact time you would have your next bowel movement, the consistency of said BM, and the quantity. Hell, this being could describe what the contents would be. We're talking nigh unto omniscient, if not fully there.

[Darth Hoth]

How about we skip that one, though?

Why? A being composed of every powerful Force user's most stupendous talents and skills would be able to do just that. It wasn't trying to prove the being would be Valley Jerec, it's a cool quote that coincidentally fits the being you wish described.

Oh, I merely meant that I think that kind of power is not readily available without artificial aids (such as the Valley, or Naga Sadow's Sith amulet/"magic crystals").

[Shannon]

Path of Destruction makes reference to Darth Bane not sleeping. Apparently an hour or two of meditation per day was sufficient to sustain him; the dark side did the rest. He also considered himself immune to poisons, because if he detected the poison, the dark side could easily purge it from his body. Githany got him because she distracted him with her wiles and by using two poisons. He detected the first and counteracted it, never suspecting the second. By the time he detected it, it was too late. He could use the dark side to keep himself going, but he needed someone else to cure him.

[Shannon]

Ghetto Edit: He also survived for two weeks without food when exploring the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban, but he still had hydration tablets for water. The point is made that even the Force has limits in that it can't create something from nothing, though that may also be a function if his particular level of skill at that time.

[The Nomad]

I think I remember Vader Force-choking Xizor over lightyears in Shadows of the Empire. So attacks can be quite discriminate and performed over great range.

Um no. He blew up his station with a turbolaser salvo from his SSD. Never attacked him with the Force, mentally or physically, as far as I recall.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I think I remember Vader Force-choking Xizor over lightyears in Shadows of the Empire. So attacks can be quite discriminate and performed over great range.

Um no. He blew up his station with a turbolaser salvo from his SSD. Never attacked him with the Force, mentally or physically, as far as I recall.

He's probably confused with the Admiral/Captain from ESB. (And Vader might have been on the secondary command bridge of the star destroyer, not another ship as I recall).
Ozzell, wasn't it? Or Piet? I can never remember which was the incompetent one

[Darth Hoth]

I think I remember Vader Force-choking Xizor over lightyears in Shadows of the Empire. So attacks can be quite discriminate and performed over great range.

Um no. He blew up his station with a turbolaser salvo from his SSD. Never attacked him with the Force, mentally or physically, as far as I recall.

Meh. I got that from Connor in an old thread ("Anakin Skywalker vs Rand al'Thor", I think it was) and did not bother checking. But alas, I cannot find it in the book or comic at first glance. Point conceded.

[Praxis]

IIRC, Xizor was rubbing his neck nervously while talking with Vader and wondered to himself if Vader was able to force choke him across the distance or if he was just imagining it.

More likely Xizor just being nervous than Vader actually performing such a feat.

[RogueIce]

IIRC, Xizor was rubbing his neck nervously while talking with Vader and wondered to himself if Vader was able to force choke him across the distance or if he was just imagining it.

More likely Xizor just being nervous than Vader actually performing such a feat.

Vader did choke Xizor in the Bounty Hunter Wars books, but I can't remember if he was physically present or not for it.

[FOG3]

Path of Destruction makes reference to Darth Bane not sleeping. Apparently an hour or two of meditation per day was sufficient to sustain him; the dark side did the rest. He also considered himself immune to poisons, because if he detected the poison, the dark side could easily purge it from his body. Githany got him because she distracted him with her wiles and by using two poisons. He detected the first and counteracted it, never suspecting the second. By the time he detected it, it was too late. He could use the dark side to keep himself going, but he needed someone else to cure him.

And he was utterly wiped out and vulnerable after his stint of no sleep overscheduled supertraining as per same book. It ultimately wasn't really exploited, but it was made perfectly clear it caught up with and bit him in the butt, hard. You can pull the same type of thing in RL. Meditation will help, but it's no substitute for REM sleep so eventually you will crash if you try to pull one of those stunts.

Plus, Bane's real track record verse poisons is pretty pathetic. He got nailed in Path of Destruction and Rule of Two and had to go begging back to the same guy to drag him back. The fact he thought he was all that, doesn't mean he was all that as Githany among others effectively showed.

The writers weren't exactly even buying he was all that given they could barely do a scene without dumping yet another power up into his hands. Library scrolls that by caveat no one else studied, Revan's Holocron, Nadd's Holocron, lightsaber resistant uber-armor, Jedi veterans magically not knowing anything about countering force attacks, etc. It speaks of a kind of lack of confidence when you keep reaching into the author's fiat bag and begin trying to scrap the bottom out, which is made all the worse due to his feats being based on relying on these thing and having what is clearly only a partial appreciation of them.

Honestly after reading the Bane novels, I'm of the opinion Revan intentionally arranged things so a moron, aka Bane, would destroy and cripple any follow up Sith movement. As even the novel itself touches on the Rule of Two inherently leads to loss of knowledge if for no other reason then not everyone can actually use every skill. Nevermind that it does not prevent ganging up attempts, like Bane feared. The fact Palpatine's movie repertoire seems rather limited and devoid of the tricks and power-up Bane obtains kind of stands as a testament that, that's how it played out. Nevermind the whole pick up and throw down the shaft incident verse the RotS novel's attempt to establish "evolution" revoming vulnerabilities. Can anyone really say with a straight face that such a thing should have been vulnerable in that fashion? Does anyone really have the gall to go "Damn, we forgot to take the possibility of the apprentice picking us up and throwing us off the railing into account, despite being rendered immune to X, Y, & Z?"

[Shannon]

Shannon wrote:
Path of Destruction makes reference to Darth Bane not sleeping. Apparently an hour or two of meditation per day was sufficient to sustain him; the dark side did the rest. He also considered himself immune to poisons, because if he detected the poison, the dark side could easily purge it from his body. Githany got him because she distracted him with her wiles and by using two poisons. He detected the first and counteracted it, never suspecting the second. By the time he detected it, it was too late. He could use the dark side to keep himself going, but he needed someone else to cure him.

And he was utterly wiped out and vulnerable after his stint of no sleep overscheduled supertraining as per same book. It ultimately wasn't really exploited, but it was made perfectly clear it caught up with and bit him in the butt, hard. You can pull the same type of thing in RL. Meditation will help, but it's no substitute for REM sleep so eventually you will crash if you try to pull one of those stunts.

Plus, Bane's real track record verse poisons is pretty pathetic. He got nailed in Path of Destruction and Rule of Two and had to go begging back to the same guy to drag him back. The fact he thought he was all that, doesn't mean he was all that as Githany among others effectively showed.

All quite true. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, but then I didn't exactly come out and say it either. The fact that Bane was able to maintain his studying routine while subsisting on a couple of hours meditation was as much due to the fact that he had no other distractions (everyone else thought he was weak and hence ignored him) and regular meals. After two weeks in the Valley of the Dark Lords he was starving, just not dehydrated, as per my last post - the Force can't create something from nothing.

Bane is portrayed as extremely powerful, but his ego leads him to make some stupid decisions. And you're right, out-of-universe there is a lot of writer's fiat. Plus there also seem to be a few anachronisms and historical inconsistencies (like the use of Vaapad a thousand years before Mace Windu invented it). I haven't yet read Rule of Two but I frequently found myself thinking how clumsy some of the writing was in Path of Destruction. There is a logical sequence to Bane's journey, and there are in-story reasons why no-one else follows the same path, but it does leave you scratching your head sometimes. I enjoyed it as a portrayal of someone being trained as a Sith from the ground up rather than being another fallen Jedi.

The fact Palpatine's movie repertoire seems rather limited and devoid of the tricks and power-up Bane obtains kind of stands as a testament that, that's how it played out.

I wouldn't call the Shroud of the Dark Side limited, when it seems clear that he is the one controlling it, though I grant you that this is only made specifically clear in the RotS novelisation. However, we do get a hint of it when he wipes the floor with Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin, who apparently couldn't see him. Outside the movies there is his use of Force Storms, his ability to retain coherence after death in the Force and transfer into clones, and his exceedingly powerful battle meditation.

Nevermind the whole pick up and throw down the shaft incident verse the RotS novel's attempt to establish "evolution" revoming vulnerabilities. Can anyone really say with a straight face that such a thing should have been vulnerable in that fashion? Does anyone really have the gall to go "Damn, we forgot to take the possibility of the apprentice picking us up and throwing us off the railing into account, despite being rendered immune to X, Y, & Z?"

In-universe this is probably attributable to the arrogance of someone who has had absolute power over all they survey for over 20 years and is now slowly electrocuting to death the only person who in all that time ever dared to say 'no' to his face. And I recall reading somewhere - Luke may have thought/said this - that having the power of the Force was all very well, but it was all about being aware of the threat. Sidious considered Vader a broken man.