do Turbo laser bolts move at lightspeed?

[Darth_Shinji]

Wouldn't a slow-mo of the fight on Jabba's skiff provide some evidence? Look to see if Luke's arms are moving when a lighsaber bolt is already in motion towards him and deflects. Precog would not help if a bolt is already in motion becuase the bolt would have already of hit luck as soon as the trigger was pulled. Anyone can look and see what happens? I won't be able to see till this weekend.

[Connor MacLeod]

If that's the case, why is there no outgassing or heating apparent on objects hit by TL bolts (in pre- and post-bolt asteroids)? Why does the Falcon's spin change significantly only when the bolt arrives? In short, why does the bolt appear important as regards the effect of TLs on objects? The asteroids should exhibit the effects of the beam transferring energy into them continuously, and the Falcon should demonstrate the effects of the beam transferring momentum continously. Instead, both appear to react discontinously.

A valid point. In the case of the asteroids , we don't see the backs very clearly, and in the fraction of the second it takes for vaporization to occur, we can't quite tell what is going on - but thats only a potential explanation, and it doesn't explain the MF hit.

However, as mentioned, we have tow possiblities (Mikes "sublight massless bolt configuration" theory as well as the idea of "variable intensity" along the beam. ) Its somewhat easier to rationalize variable intensity (delaying the complete power of the shot until a hit is guaranteed, possibly) - Its harder to wonder why they would deliberately slow the bolt (I believe Mike inferred that the helical "pattern" would be spinning - and spinning the bolt is supposed to counter its dissipation ability. But why slow them down so substantially?)

Asteroids should exhibit ablation and outgassing at least, shouldn't they?

Some perhaps. I'm not entirely sure. Remember that this is a very brief duration (most "bolt" durations are less than a second if memory serves.

I presume its not a problem, since Saxton nor Mike to my knowledge have ever commented on it. Again, it might be worthwhile to ask him.

Yes, I agree.

Would you care to ask him? That way you can guarantee you get the answers you want (and I can't be claimed to have skewed the results))

I think the evidence is strongly in favour of a variation of intensity down the beam. Perhaps the less intense section of the beam is capable of acting as a "finder", ranging the target (and sometimes carrying enough energy to do damage on its own).

Possibly. It might be analogous to a pulsed laser (rapid heating and cooling can cause materials to rapidly expand and contract, which can badly stress the hull.)

Or it may simply be a side effect of the weapon (Saxton has observed in the superlaser variations in intensity... and there appear to be other bolts where this is true.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Wouldn't a slow-mo of the fight on Jabba's skiff provide some evidence? Look to see if Luke's arms are moving when a lighsaber bolt is already in motion towards him and deflects. Precog would not help if a bolt is already in motion becuase the bolt would have already of hit luck as soon as the trigger was pulled. Anyone can look and see what happens? I won't be able to see till this weekend.

It might or might not. At the very worst, we're forced to adopt a theory like wht Mike proposed for sublight moving bolts, as problematical as it is (but it can be worked out.. or at least something like it can.)

It will also depend on whether or not the bolt was actually going to hit. Deflection in some cases may be partial or reflexive.

[Kerneth]

A thought I had on the argument as to whether Jedi use pure premonition, Force-enhanced speed, or a combination thereof to deflect blaster bolts.

Luke gets shot in the hand while on the skiff and never seems to see it coming, and thus doesn't appear to even try to avoid it. More importantly, accepting the EU as canon, the Jedi are capable of fighting multiple Yuuzhan Vong warriors, who are all considered faster and tougher than human counterparts (witness an unarmored Vong killing a Noghri bodyguard with his barehands). The Jedi can fight, one on one, with the Vong despite not being able to feel them in the Force or get a sense of what they're about to do, as is stated throughout the NJO novels. Ergo, the Jedi *must* have superhuman reflexes, if they are able to match the Vong, or so it seems to me.

[white_rabbit]

Again, the beam is constantly delivering energy, up until we see the effects occur (and possibly beyond)

So what do the firepower numbers mean ?


Is the total firepower of a single shot 200 gigatons/whatever, spread out over the beams duration, or is it a sustained delivery ?

Sustained delivery means "spread out over the beam's duration" .)

For sustained delivery I meant is the firepower 200gigatons per second, or 200 gigatons worth of energy deliver over the firing period.

I still can't make this theory fit with the aforementioned MF incident....

[mauldooku]

I'm confused...doesn't the fact that we see the beams move disprove the 'move at C' thing? I may be interpreting stuff incorecttly, but I don't understand how something that we see move can move at C.

[Robert Treder]

I'm confused...doesn't the fact that we see the beams move disprove the 'move at C' thing? I may be interpreting stuff incorecttly, but I don't understand how something that we see move can move at C.

Now now, there are no stupid questions. The consensus is that there are two portions of the turbolaser bolt: an invisible bolt, which travels at c and carries most (if not all) of the damaging effect of the bolt, and the familiar visible, glowing bolt, which in theory acts as a sort of tracer.

For more info on the subject, check out what these distinguished experts have to say:

Curtis Saxton
Brian Young
Mike Wong

Also look around these forums for some great debates on the nature of blasters and turbolasers.

[Connor MacLeod]

A thought I had on the argument as to whether Jedi use pure premonition, Force-enhanced speed, or a combination thereof to deflect blaster bolts.

I believe precognition is required in any event, as well as the speed/reflexes (we see this latter demonstrated not only by Yoda in AOTC, but by qui-Gon and Yoda when the Droidekas show up - note how they blur down the hall rapidly and cover the distance in seconds)

Precognition would be a prequisite

Another possibility (although a far fetched one) is that they can use the Force to "nudge" the guns enough over so that the bolts are more easily deflected (This is analogous IIRC my PK stuff to the ability of some kinds of psychokinesis to "Affect" outcomes - the ability to make/predict dice to come up a certain number, etc. Qui Gon does this to save Anakin, remember. And the "test" Anakin is given in TPM reminds me vaguely of the kinds of tests given in psi testing (Zener cards, I think).

While I do not consider this to normally be a "valid" source for research, this is useful given the PK-like abilities Force users employ:

http://www.themystica.org/mystica/artic ... is_pk.html

IIRC the article correctly, it also indicates that precognition is something of a prerequisite for the PK effects to occur.

Luke gets shot in the hand while on the skiff and never seems to see it coming, and thus doesn't appear to even try to avoid it. More importantly, accepting the EU as canon, the Jedi are capable of fighting multiple Yuuzhan Vong warriors, who are all considered faster and tougher than human counterparts (witness an unarmored Vong killing a Noghri bodyguard with his barehands). The Jedi can fight, one on one, with the Vong despite not being able to feel them in the Force or get a sense of what they're about to do, as is stated throughout the NJO novels. Ergo, the Jedi *must* have superhuman reflexes, if they are able to match the Vong, or so it seems to me.

Interestingly enough, Luke's hand getting shot is another incident of "damage before contact."

[Connor MacLeod]

For sustained delivery I meant is the firepower 200gigatons per second, or 200 gigatons worth of energy deliver over the firing period.

200 GT per shot seems to imply per firing period (the "shot" indicates a single discharge.) This is the maximum that the gun itself can handle without recharging or cooling down, probably. Whether or not its delivered over seeverl seconds, broken up into multiple pulses with lower overall energy, or whatnot. Note that the maximum "time" for the timeframe is no more than a second, and less seems more desirable.

I still can't make this theory fit with the aforementioned MF incident....

With a massless bolt, the momentu of the incident is going to be directly related to the amount of energy involved/delivered. Possibly the "delay" in effect may be possiblyt to variations in energy output, velocity variation due to helicial movmement of the bolt (remember Mike's theory?) , or it may simply be that the momentum event is due to a shield/bolt interaction (the AotC ICS suggests that ray shields can use the energy hitting the shield to improve manuverability.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Now now, there are no stupid questions. The consensus is that there are two portions of the turbolaser bolt: an invisible bolt, which travels at c and carries most (if not all) of the damaging effect of the bolt, and the familiar visible, glowing bolt, which in theory acts as a sort of tracer.

There are two portions, but they seem to be essentially different aspects of the same weapon. The glowing pulse is a mere byproduct of the decay of the TL particles into visible light (which appears to be a natural effect for them and is also how the damage mechanism occurs - as well as accounting for the dissipation of the bolt's strength.) IT could be used as a tracer, I imagine.

[white_rabbit]

the AotC ICS suggests that ray shields can use the energy hitting the shield to improve manuverability.

How ?

[Illuminatus Primus]

No. It indicates particle shields can influence air flow and affect manuverability that way.

[Soulman]

Might the actual 'bolt' be larger than the glowy bit which we can see, this might explain why we sometimes see the effect before the visible part impacts.

Or am I being stupid?

[Connor MacLeod]

Page 31 of the AoTC ICS under the heading "Bow Prongs" (next to the solar sailer introductory paragraph):

"Also, the spread of ray-shield energies around the prongs can be selectively adjusted to give the ship extra manuverability."

On the manuverability issue, though unrelated to the ray shield thing:

"Rows of narrow-beam tractor-repuslor emitters along the prongs act as offensive grapples or steering aids when there are surrounding objects to pull and push against."

[Connor MacLeod]

Might the actual 'bolt' be larger than the glowy bit which we can see, this might explain why we sometimes see the effect before the visible part impacts.

Or am I being stupid?

Do you mean is it longer than teh glowing portion of the bolt? In the majority of cases, most likely (possibly even so in the case of superlasers and micro su perlasers, like the LAAT gunship beams)

If oyu mean the diameter of the bolt, unknown. althugh to be reflected by lightsabers, any bolt would have to be narrower then the saber blade.

[Connor MacLeod]

the AotC ICS suggests that ray shields can use the energy hitting the shield to improve manuverability.

How ?

Actually, I'm wrong there. it just says "ray shield energies" but It would seem to suggest that shields need something to act against to do this (in the caes of ray shields, its some kind of energy weapon or radiation)

[Connor MacLeod]

No. It indicates particle shields can influence air flow and affect manuverability that way.

Nope. Says ray shields