Question about the Rebel Fleet in RotJ

[Illuminatus Primus]

Which is where that "possible appearance" bit probably comes from. It could have "possibly" been there we just couldn't see it

I understand its now fashionable to go lol @ teh dumb EU but the absolutely canonical ROTJ novelisation specifically states the Rebel fleet stretched beyond visual range, not only is off-screen a reasonable assumption when regarding unseen craft, but in this case it is specifically mandated by the canon. Furthermore, assuming that because a ship is unobserved it cannot exist is appealing to ignorance in both cases, both ROTS and ROTJ.

[Kartr_Kana]

Which is where that "possible appearance" bit probably comes from. It could have "possibly" been there we just couldn't see it

I understand its now fashionable to go lol @ teh dumb EU but the absolutely canonical ROTJ novelisation specifically states the Rebel fleet stretched beyond visual range, not only is off-screen a reasonable assumption when regarding unseen craft, but in this case it is specifically mandated by the canon. Furthermore, assuming that because a ship is unobserved it cannot exist is appealing to ignorance in both cases, both ROTS and ROTJ.

I'm actual a rather big fan of the EU, barring a lot of the works written recently, especially books by KT, the Killik trilogy and LOTF. I was actually disparaging wikipedia since I don't trust the average population of the internet to edit with any sort of accuracy. I've always accepted that the vicstar, dread, carrack, and CEC Gunship have existed I just wish that GL could have shown them on screen.

[Darth Ruinus]

I've always accepted that the vicstar, dread, carrack, and CEC Gunship have existed I just wish that GL could have shown them on screen.

How? Weren't these ships made up after the movies came out?

[Lord Revan]

I've always accepted that the vicstar, dread, carrack, and CEC Gunship have existed I just wish that GL could have shown them on screen.

How? Weren't these ships made up after the movies came out?

in real life yes, but in "lore" some of those are clone wars designs (and in case ROTS the novelization says there was Dread and carracks at the battle of Corusant even if they weren't shown in the movie)

[Battlehymn Republic]

Which is where that "possible appearance" bit probably comes from. It could have "possibly" been there we just couldn't see it

Which is why every goddamn game that does Endor introduces an entirely new arrangement of ships, stupid secret crap, new fighters, the player being critical etc. Turns out the EU is crazy.

Hey, at least it's anti-minimalism at an appropriate time. The clusterfuck about who really stole the Death Star plans, on the other hand...

[Kartr_Kana]

I've always accepted that the vicstar, dread, carrack, and CEC Gunship have existed I just wish that GL could have shown them on screen.

How? Weren't these ships made up after the movies came out?

After RotJ came out yes, but they existed long before RotS so it shouldn't have been a problem to show the VSD,the Dreads and the Carracks. Especially since the Dreads and Carracks are mentioned as being at the battle over Coruscant. The VSDs could have easily been added as well since, IIRC their design comes from early concept art and models for ANH. Plus they were supposed to be the premier ship at the end of the clone wars.

[DrMckay]

The Mention of Alderaanian warships is from "The Bacta War" by Michael A. Stackpole. One of the pilots from Alderaan uses an older IFF code to personalize his fighter, and ends up making contact with an automated vessel that has returned to the debris field tha was once Alderaan. It was one of the ships sent to protect A vessel that they had loaded weapons onto in case they needed them again.

I always got the impression that Alderaan did some things they weren't exactly proud of during the Clone Wars, and the pacifism was an atonement of sorts. At least until the Clusterfrak that was the the Prequel Trilogy.

[DesertFly]

I always got the impression that Alderaan did some things they weren't exactly proud of during the Clone Wars, and the pacifism was an atonement of sorts. At least until the Clusterfrak that was the the Prequel Trilogy.

I always thought that Leia saying "No, Alderaan is a peaceful world, we have no weapons!" was exaggerated hyperbole that got taken out of context and blown way out of proportion by unimaginative EU authors. It seems pretty obvious when watching the scene in question that she was desperate and would have said that they would all get blowjobs if they didn't blow up her planet, if she thought it would work! It really seems crazy that Alderaan would have no weapons, when at least the police would need some! Oh yeah, they outlaw all guns on the planet, then a pirate group shows up, smuggles a few groups of people through the shield, and kicks ass since no-one has any way to defend themselves, including the police!

[Jade Falcon]

One comment I've always wondered about in the movies was Han Solo mentioning that the Falcon could outrun Imperial vessels, then saying "The big Corellian ships", was the Star Destroyer designation even used in SW, it's been a little while since I last watched it.

[Batman]

Um-Ackbar calling Executor a Super Star Destroyer and him saying 'At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers' in ROTJ come to mind.

[Jade Falcon]

Um-Ackbar calling Executor a Super Star Destroyer and him saying 'At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers' in ROTJ come to mind.

I meant SW as in the first film SW:ANH, not the original trilogy as a whole, though I should have made that clear.

[Bilbo]

Um-Ackbar calling Executor a Super Star Destroyer and him saying 'At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers' in ROTJ come to mind.

I meant SW as in the first film SW:ANH, not the original trilogy as a whole, though I should have made that clear.

You only see two shots of ISD in SW:ANH and neither time is there anyone talking who mentions a name.

[Ashka Boda]

Any ship the Rebels had in serivce would have been present at the battle, as, according to the novelization, every Rebel had gathered for the attack.

I have difficulty seeing the military wisdom in commiting every ship you have to a single attack, even if the Emperor was there. Isn't there any EU evidence to the contrary?

As for the Corellian Gunship being in ROTJ, I find that hard to believe, although the Gunship is based on an early model for the Millenium Falcon that was actually built. I wouldn't put it past some joker at ILM throwing it in there just for the hell of it. I heard somewhere that there's a tennis shoe in there as well, so anything goes, I guess.

[TC Pilot]

I have difficulty seeing the military wisdom in commiting every ship you have to a single attack, even if the Emperor was there.

We already know from G-canon that they brought such sterling warships as the "Medical frigate" to the battle, as well as unarmed transports as ram ships and suicide bombers. Furthermore, we know from the ANH novelization (which is G-canon, too) that the Rebels like to make gestures of support and camaraderie without any tangible military advantage (notable rebel leaders from across the galaxy gathered at Yavin to witness the battle, even when they had no value to the actual attack).

Isn't there any EU evidence to the contrary?

No. In fact, TIE Fighter dedicates an entire campaign wherein the pilot is tasked with making sure as many rebels as possible assemble for the battle. By the end, the Imperials are confident that practically every rebel out there will participate.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Any ship the Rebels had in serivce would have been present at the battle, as, according to the novelization, every Rebel had gathered for the attack.

I have difficulty seeing the military wisdom in commiting every ship you have to a single attack, even if the Emperor was there. Isn't there any EU evidence to the contrary?

It's called concentrating for the decisive battle. Forces should never be committed in a piecemeal fashion.

[The Romulan Republic]

I have difficulty seeing the military wisdom in commiting every ship you have to a single attack, even if the Emperor was there. Isn't there any EU evidence to the contrary?

I believe their is some, but I can't recall any specifics. Regardless, its irrelevant, as any EU material would be overruled by the novel on the canon scale. Only the films can override the novels.

Incidentally, would fighters be counted under "ships"? As in, is it possible that the rebels left fighter reserves as a defensive force at Mon Calimari or something?

[The Romulan Republic]

You only see two shots of ISDs in SW:ANH and neither time is there anyone talking who mentions a name.

Well to be completely accurate, their are three scenes involving one or more ISD, and a total of 6 shots I think.

[TC Pilot]

Incidentally, would fighters be counted under "ships"? As in, is it possible that the rebels left fighter reserves as a defensive force at Mon Calimari or something?

The novelization quite clearly says every "civilian and soldier alike" was present. Of course, it's ridiculous to assume that the rebels depopulated Mon Calimari and ferried them to Endor. It's likely, then, that Mon Calimari, and any other rebellious world, did not belong to any "Rebel Alliance" state, keeping in mind that the organization was essentially an exceptionally well-armed terrorist group and a collection of otherwise unrelated rebel factions.

It is likely that the planet remained under the protection of local defense forces that were not incorporated into the overall rebel order of battle.

[The Romulan Republic]

Incidentally, would fighters be counted under "ships"? As in, is it possible that the rebels left fighter reserves as a defensive force at Mon Calimari or something?

The novelization quite clearly says every "civilian and soldier alike" was present. Of course, it's ridiculous to assume that the rebels depopulated Mon Calimari and ferried them to Endor. It's likely, then, that Mon Calimari, and any other rebellious world, did not belong to any "Rebel Alliance" state, keeping in mind that the organization was essentially an exceptionally well-armed terrorist group and a collection of otherwise unrelated rebel factions.

It is likely that the planet remained under the protection of local defense forces that were not incorporated into the overall rebel order of battle.

That makes sense. The Rebellion at this point was a guerilla military force, not a state. So the entire official Rebel Alliance fleet could be present, but the various assets of its state sponsors and affiliated organizations would not nessissarily be.

[TheSpaceman?]

As for the Corellian Gunship being in ROTJ, I find that hard to believe, although the Gunship is based on an early model for the Millenium Falcon that was actually built. I wouldn't put it past some joker at ILM throwing it in there just for the hell of it. I heard somewhere that there's a tennis shoe in there as well, so anything goes, I guess.

Yes, the fact that it appeared in concept art makes me think it's actually possible that it made an appearance in one of the movies. Similar to how Juggernauts actually ended up in RotS.