Star Destroyer's Manufacturing Ships

[Isolder74]

I think the Arc Hammer relies on several manufacturing facilities that were ground-based, such as the Phrik processing facility that was later destroyed by Katarn.

It did. So while the Arc Hammer can assemble the dark troopers it appears that it can't mine and refine the metals needed to make them.

[Darth Raptor]

I think the Arc Hammer relies on several manufacturing facilities that were ground-based, such as the Phrik processing facility that was later destroyed by Katarn.

It did. So while the Arc Hammer can assemble the dark troopers it appears that it can't mine and refine the metals needed to make them.

Although I don't think there's any reason why they HAD to be on the ground (other than it being generally easier to mine planets than blow them up and nom on the debris). The processing plant on Hoth Anteevy could have easily been on the Arc Hammer... er, assuming the ship had the power and volume for it, of course.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Although I don't think there's any reason why they HAD to be on the ground (other than it being generally easier to mine planets than blow them up and nom on the debris). The processing plant on Hoth Anteevy could have easily been on the Arc Hammer... er, assuming the ship had the power and volume for it, of course.

Well.... it would cost quite a bit of credits to continue to ship out the mined phrik every now and then to the orbital facility just for processing.

[Starglider]

Although I don't think there's any reason why they HAD to be on the ground (other than it being generally easier to mine planets than blow them up and nom on the debris). The processing plant on Hoth Anteevy could have easily been on the Arc Hammer... er, assuming the ship had the power and volume for it, of course.

Assorted mining ships are present in the SW universe, from small ones that just mine ore to large ones that also refine it. It just doesn't normally make sense to integrate everything onto one ship; the World Devestators were an unusual application of existing technology rather than a radical breakthrough, even moreso than the Death Star.

[Lord Revan]

there's also a strategic/tactical advantace to keep parts of the fabrication chain seperate, after all it'll be harder to take out several facilities then a single location/ship that has them all (and I seriously dout the empire wouldn't take such things into account).

[Simon_Jester]

there's also a strategic/tactical advantace to keep parts of the fabrication chain seperate, after all it'll be harder to take out several facilities then a single location/ship that has them all (and I seriously dout the empire wouldn't take such things into account).

Yes, but that comes with a big disadvantage, one that comes up even in civilian life- a disruption at one facility cuts the entire chain.

Dividing up a fabrication chain vertically is better than centralizing it outright in some ways, but it's a lot less helpful than dividing fabrication horizontally- having multiple facilities dedicated to each step in the process so that knocking out one doesn't cripple production.

From that point of view, building each ship to be able to make new ships has both strengths (it decentralizes production about as far as possible) and weaknesses (losing a major fleet battle also means you lose part of your ability to replace the destroyed ships).

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Well given that the World Devastators are a tiny fraction of the size of a DS, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to imagine it having the same capabilities, or at least the ability to convert space for it.

Conversion of space I can see moreso then having a shipyard inside. Just Red's point does stand...why? It serves little purpose even for either of the Death Stars.

One reason: it allows the Empire to continue ship production from a nearly invincible, highly mobile base. Even if they get invaded by ravening hordes from the next galaxy over who are conquering systems left and right, even if places like Kuat and Fondor are out of commission, the Empire will still be able to produce warships in large numbers.

Since this actually happens about 25 years after the construction of the Death Stars, that strikes me as a reasonable contingency for the Empire to be planning for.

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Is there any evidence for this sort of capability in either real life or Star Wars? Other than the (one off) World Devastators, I can't think of a single one. Aircraft carriers, for example, carry 70+ aircraft, but they can't manufacture anything complex, certainly not entire airplanes, never mind destroyers, frigates, or even inflatable speedboats. Battleships weren't capable of manufacturing shells for their rifles, ships of the line couldn't build corvettes, etc.

I agree with your conclusion, but I have a nitpick:

In the Age of Sail, a large ship often did contain all the tools and resources needed to assemble a smaller one, although you might have to get some of the parts out of the larger ship. There are numerous examples of shipwrecked crews taking wood, rope, and canvas from the ruins of their old ship and building a smaller new one. Even without the option of taking the ship apart, an Age of Sail vessel would typically boast a large crew, many of them skilled as carpenters, and a wide variety of woodworking tools. You'd need to find trees and stuff from elsewhere, and finding an external supply of rope and fabric could be problematic, but there was no fundamental reason why a large ship couldn't build a smaller ship given a long period with nothing better to do.
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The question we really want to ask is why this stopped being possible, and the short answer is the Industrial Revolution. During the Age of Sail, the same tools and skills needed to repair the ship (woodworking, especially) were used to build new ships. Once people started making ships out of steel and engines out of parts machined to microscopic tolerances, that stopped being true.

Looking at a far-future technological setting like Star Wars, there are two options:
1)Assume that the present trend continues- ships are built using large, complex devices that can't be conveniently carried on the ship themselves. It's possible to design a mobile ship factory, but the mobile factory will be a specialized design and will probably make a very suboptimal warship. Imperial Star Destroyers won't have that capability, because they are specially designed as warships.

2)Assume that in the future, our manufacturing technology improves to the point where we can make even the most specialized materials and parts using relatively portable equipment (something like Star Trek replicators). In that case, every ship's machine shop might well have everything it needs to make a new ship. Combine this with robotic ships and you get the classical von Neumann probe; rely on manned ships and you get a crew that is singularly difficult to strand anywhere.

I'd be inclined to predict (1), which is why I agree with you in spite of my nitpick.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

In the Age of Sail, a large ship often did contain all the tools and resources needed to assemble a smaller one, although you might have to get some of the parts out of the larger ship. There are numerous examples of shipwrecked crews taking wood, rope, and canvas from the ruins of their old ship and building a smaller new one. Even without the option of taking the ship apart, an Age of Sail vessel would typically boast a large crew, many of them skilled as carpenters, and a wide variety of woodworking tools. You'd need to find trees and stuff from elsewhere, and finding an external supply of rope and fabric could be problematic, but there was no fundamental reason why a large ship couldn't build a smaller ship given a long period with nothing better to do.

Even if they could, such ships will not be very durable. The reason being is that wood often has to be subjected to much treating, such as drying (that in the past lasted for years). A construction of a ship of the line, or frigates often are a result of years of work (some ship of the lines took over a decade to complete!)

Also, I am not sure if there is a substantial point in constructing small ships, or to have a roaming shipyard. A large starship like an Imperator requires a substantial production and resource chain, that is non-trivial. From reactors, to sensor parts etc. etc., all this are often subcontracted out to various KDY subsidiaries, or other companies. A lot of raw materials needs to be processed and then made useful.

[Isolder74]

also any age of sail any ship build with onboard tools would really only have one reason. A lifeboat to more or less allow the crew to get back home. The ship simply wouldn't be useful for much else.

[Simon_Jester]

also any age of sail any ship build with onboard tools would really only have one reason. A lifeboat to more or less allow the crew to get back home. The ship simply wouldn't be useful for much else.

You're right, but what I'm trying to get at is that the technology was simple enough that a ship could contain the expertise and starting toolset needed to duplicate itself. It would have been far more trouble than it was worth, and the crew would probably have to build some stuff like forges on the beach from scratch, but given access to resources the ship's crew could duplicate most of the things on the ship if they felt the need, possibly excluding the cannons.

Under any normal conditions they wouldn't do so, because (as you say) all they really needed was a lifeboat. For something bigger you'd need a very long period with nothing better to do, as Fingolfin points out. But unless I'm sorely mistaken, you could still do it- especially if you put even a little forethought into the skill set of the crew you took on board at the start of the voyage.

Once the Age of Sail gave way to the Age of Steam, followed by the Age of Diesel, that was no longer true, because the ships depended on things that could never be duplicated using hand tools, and that would take decades for a small group to duplicate starting from hand tools.