Why didn't they broadcast Death Star plans?

[DatBurnTho11]

AFAIK, the Rebels stole/received the plans/technical specifications to the Death Star I, not a specialized attack plan indicating that they would use the weakness at the exhaust port. As such, if the Imperials intercepted the plans, they would not have gained any new information while if the Rebels received the plans, they might be able to use it to launch an attack against the station. So, I was wondering why the Rebels didn't just broadcast the plans without any decryption throughout the whole "holo-net" or whatever its called. Heck, even if non-aligned parties received the plans, it would only pose more problems for the Empire.

I can think of a few reasons why they wouldn't, but otherwise to me it seems like an oversight:
1) The Empire controls long distance communications (by controlling the relay stations or something) and no message would get far enough
2) The Rebel ship wanted to do this, but was not yet in range of the Rebel base they wanted to transmit the plans to (but I thought the "holonet" was galaxy wide, or perhaps this is in conjunction with #1)
3) This would alert the Empire that the Rebels would likely use the plans to the attack the Death Star and use it to mount a pre-emptive strike (Probably the weakest excuse, as the Empire should have known as soon as the plans were stolen that their security was compromised. I'm sure fingers would naturally point to the Rebels.)

So what do you guys think? Am I missing something? I haven't read the novelizations or anything, maybe it was explained there.

[Agent Sorchus]

The rebels might also have decided that it was too dangerous to allow the plans to be duplicated by corporations or Black Sun (Black Sun did almost all of the shipping for the construction of the second DS, so it is within their industrial reach). It would be like KGB after gaining access to the Manhattan Project schematics and then giving those to all sorts of unaligned nations and expecting to gain favor for it.

[CDiehl]

Also, what would broadcasting those plans accomplish in terms of the average person? Most people won't understand it beyond having seen a bunch of very technical information, and the people who could understand it would take a long time to digest it and realize what they saw. Either way, the Empire could easily denounce this as phony gobbledygook, and marginalize those who dispute that as kooks. Obviously, they'd still quietly eliminate any group who tries to build a Death Star or part of one.

[Dave]

(Black Sun did almost all of the shipping for the construction of the second DS, so it is within their industrial reach)

Doing the shipping does not necessarily mean they have the purchasing power, construction industry, construction expertise or any of the other factors that go into a construction project.

[Agent Sorchus]

Considering that the Hutts almost built the Dark Saber, that no one thought it to be odd for Black Sun to concern it's self with buying up normal industrial goods for the second death star, and that the first death star is far less of an investment than the second I consider it to be rather reasonable that they could build one using the technical schematics if they felt like it.

[DatBurnTho11]

So I'm thinking you guys are saying that the most prevalent reason would be:

4) Broadcasting the plan publically might enhance the military's of non-aligned powers, that actually have sufficient industrial means and technological power to potentially allow them to build their own Death Star?

I had no idea that there were non-aligned sections that were that powerful at ANH. Well, I guess I really should read some of the works in the EU to understand what's going on...

[Night_stalker]

That, or it would make tracking the plans a LOT easier for the Empire. Any sort of transmission that has the plans attached is going to be BIG. Let's face it, the detailed blueprints for a 160km by 160 km by 160 km sphere are going to be very big. As such, the Empire is probably watching for large transmissions that would doubtlessly be encoded. 2+2= ISB coming to pay you a "visit".

[Agent Sorchus]

While there are not any truly independent nations, there are Corporate statelets and even criminal organizations that might take advantage of it. Even if they probably won't the rebels are portrayed as such bleeding hearts that even the fear of proliferation is probably enough to keep them from doing so.

Eh, it is as good a reason as any.

[Elfdart]

If they broadcast the plans, every interested party will go over them looking for weaknesses -including the Empire, which could ruin the Rebels' chances of exploiting that weakness.

[Batman]

If they broadcast the plans, every interested party will go over them looking for weaknesses -including the Empire, which could ruin the Rebels' chances of exploiting that weakness.

Depends on when the rebels found out about the Empire KNOWING they had the plans. If they knew pretty much the moment they stole them that's useless, the Empire will be reviewing those plans ANYWAY. But IF they thought they had gotten away with it without the Imps noticing then broadcasting the plans would indeed blow the whistle on them.

[Darth Tanner]

every interested party will go over them looking for weaknesses -including the Empire, which could ruin the Rebels' chances of exploiting that weakness.

Wouldn't it be a good idea for the Empire to look at potential weaknesses in their key construction project anyway? The speed with which the Rebels found the weakness and the speed which the Empire realised their intended plan during the attack would indicate they didn't do much quality control before leaping into full scale construction. Which might be a symptom of working for a homicidal lunatic like Palpatine who wants it built today.

1) The Empire controls long distance communications

This. after the Empire is declared Palpatine nationalises the holonet and stops civilian traffic in favour of military and other Imperial traffic to save money for his grand army and fleet. Although many ships have their own galactic range communication systems these are usually quite large ships and could easily not include the Blockade Runner that received the plans in the first place. Also the use of such long range communications could be easy to trace, giving away the location of their base.

Black Sun to concern it's self with buying up normal industrial goods for the second death star

Did Black Sun buy the components as well? I thought they were simply transporting imperial supplies, although these would likely have been coming from private contractors anyway, ie Fonder/Kuat ect.

[NRS Guardian]

Darth Tanner has provided the main reason why the Rebels didn't transmit the plans. An additional reason is that Leia using her diplomatic immunity and Senate position as cover was still trying to play innocent at least until she realized it wouldn't work, after all she was feigning outrage and going on about how the Empire had no cause to stop and board her ship which was only on a "mercy mission." So transmitting top secret information that she shouldn't possess in the clear where the ISD could intercept it would make it impossible for her to claim she's innocent, and doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Azron_Stoma]

This might be better for use in defense of the "Extremely flawed SW military?" Thread, but I remember in Death Star Tarkin musing about how being the administrator of the Death Star made him, per force, the most powerful man in the galaxy and could theoretically wrest control from Palpatine if he challenged him, but He knew that if the positions were reversed there would be some kind of fail safe or weakness built into the station to ensure loyalty.

What if the Exhaust port was just such a fail safe? After the Jedi Purge it was believed so strongly that Vader and Palpatine were the only Force users left. "You my friend are all that is left of their religion" as Tarkin put it. That the Fail safe was designed specifically to only be expected to work reliably if someone who was strong with the force was to exploit it? The rebels using it out of desperation more than anything else.

Imagine the Terror he would create in the galaxy when people realized the true depths to Vaders "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force" if ever Tarkin were to go rouge and challenge the Emperor, by destroying the Death Star with such apparent ease.

Unfortunately Palpatine realized too late that some of the Jedi were still alive and one in training was a member of the rebellion... oops.

[Darth Tanner]

What if the Exhaust port was just such a fail safe?

The means by which Palpatine kept Tarking loyal is by having his most loyal henchman on the station with the ability to choke Tarkin to death so no need to have him fly outside and fire some torpedoes down an exhaust shaft. Also theres millions of Imperial soldiers, stormtroopers and officers all loyal to Palpatine, I'd imagine they were chosen for their political reliability seeing the importance of the station to the survival of the Empire once the senate is desolved.

[Zixinus]

There is also the thing that it might not be the best idea to make the ultimate death-dealing device's blueprints known to everyone. Who knows, an enemy of the Empire (I don't know what other factions are in the Empire's neighborhood) could do what they want with those plans, including taking the details of the main laser thing and miniaturizing it so you wouldn't have to make an entire Death Star to fire it. That would be nasty.

The Rebels want to overthrow the Emperor and bring back the Republic. They don't want to threaten the Empire itself.

[Ghost Rider]

I believe the main problem of simply reproducing the design is getting the materials for the reactor, let alone the shell and keeping such a thing secret from said government. While Darksaber and the Tarkin were good examples of independent sources(of sorts...the Tarkin was at least under nominal Imperial control), they likely lacked the punch that gave the Death Star it's true reason for existing.

But for the reason of not broadcasting can be inferred in the same reason militaries of today do not. There are some things you want to kept secret regardless if the enemy cannot do anything about because it is a control of information.

[Sea Skimmer]

I believe the main problem of simply reproducing the design is getting the materials for the reactor, let alone the shell and keeping such a thing secret from said government. While Darksaber and the Tarkin were good examples of independent sources(of sorts...the Tarkin was at least under nominal Imperial control), they likely lacked the punch that gave the Death Star it's true reason for existing.

Yeah. I’d imagine they had less raw firepower, but just as importantly they probably didn’t have anything like the supporting onboard infrastructure. The Death Star was probably fitted out with some pretty massive on board repair capability, full galactic intelligence capability and other features like that which would make it more then just a weapons platform. More like a total war machine that can do anything from spread propaganda broadcasts to blow up planets, making it an excellent mobile galactic dominance machine for the Emperor to ride around on. Capabilities like that would also help explain why the Death Star has so much extra volume around the reactor machinery, while the Tarkin and Darksaber are a lot more functionally shaped.

So it’s kind of like comparing a tank, and a towed anti tank gun. The effect on the target from the shells might be the same, but the total capabilities are far different.

Making that reactor probably requires some really specialized machine tools (kilometer wide furnaces for heat treatments and stuff like that) even if you had access to enough raw material to build it.

But for the reason of not broadcasting can be inferred in the same reason militaries of today do not. There are some things you want to kept secret regardless if the enemy cannot do anything about because it is a control of information./quote]

I agree with that. Enough small reasons exist to add up to openly broadcasting the plans to be a bad idea. The biggest issue I see is that the Falcon didn't transmit the plans after fleeing the Death Star when Leia openly suspected they'd been allowed to escape, but that might be as simple a matter as the Falcon not having enough communications bandwidth to do the job without entering the Yavin system in the first place. Also they had slight reason to want the Death Star to follow them, since unless they could quickly destroy it before any flaws were fixed, the Rebellion was going to be doomed anyway.

[LopEaredGaloot]

From the Toprawa system (where the DS plans were transmitted to the Tantive IV) it is less than 20LY to the Yavin system.

Leia instead chose to run thousands of LY, clear down to Tatooine, from the NE to the SW sides of the galaxy map, using one of the big 'trade route' hyperlanes that, perforce, passes through the core of the galaxy where all the other major planets (Alderaan, Coruscant etc.) are.

Along with presumably very heavy defenses.

i.e. Not only was Leia likely 'in range' of the Holonet, coming and going, before she left her calling area but she had to pass through a huge array of probable tracking stations and other Imperial assets on the way thru.

All to abandon her daddy's political influence as well as a 'crowd' of other ships/ports/planets she could disappear among. Instead choosing to head off into the boonies to find an old geezer she'd never met and who, for all she knew might already be dead.

Makes almost as much sense as the DS flying around on it's maiden voyage, blowing up major core worlds in what amounts to an open declaration of state terrorism by the Empire against it's dependent constituencies.

Without a battlegroup escort being built around it to defend against the very loss of plans which the Empire itself knew were in Rebel hands.

No, no and never. Time to fire the writer.

[Jim Raynor]

From the Toprawa system (where the DS plans were transmitted to the Tantive IV) it is less than 20LY to the Yavin system.

For someone who seems to hate Star Wars to its very core, you seem to love bringing up obscure EU trivia. There is no such thing as "Toprawa" in the movie. If the EU and the movie contradict, then it is the the EU that is being stupid. Just going by the movie, we have no idea where Leia first got her hands on the DS plans.

Makes almost as much sense as the DS flying around on it's maiden voyage, blowing up major core worlds in what amounts to an open declaration of state terrorism by the Empire against it's dependent constituencies.

I guess you missed the part where the Empire is an evil dictatorship, and Tarkin wanted to expand military control over the systems using the Death Star to intimidate them.

Without a battlegroup escort being built around it to defend against the very loss of plans which the Empire itself knew were in Rebel hands.

It's not like the Death Star plans clearly label a weakness. It's a moon-sized battlestation with one 2-meter hole in it. A 2-meter hole defended by a crapload of turbolasers and TIE Fighters. Which no Rebel pilot, using the targeting systems of their fighters, could hit. Only Luke, who had the Force, was able to do it.

No, no and never. Time to fire the writer.

Yeah, "fire the writer" after the first Star Wars movie. Billions of people would disagree with you.

EDIT: quotes

[LopEaredGaloot]

Jim Raynor,

For someone who seems to hate Star Wars to its very core, you seem to love bringing up obscure EU trivia. There is no such thing as "Toprawa" in the movie. If the EU and the movie contradict, then it is the the EU that is being stupid. Just going by the movie, we have no idea where Leia first got her hands on the DS plans.

Which does not make it a contradiction because the opening crawl states that 'sortieing from a hidden base, the Rebels have scored their first major victory...in which secret plans transmitted to Princess Leia...' etc..

There was a battle. And Leia was there in the Tantive IV. We don't know for sure that it wasn't Toprawa in Lucas' head. And if it wasn't then, it is now. As is the galaxy map by which the Toprawa/Yavin distances are tiny compared to running all the way to Tatooine on the equivalent of an intragalactic space highway that passes right next to the police station.

I guess you missed the part where the Empire is an evil dictatorship, and Tarkin wanted to expand military control over the systems using the Death Star to intimidate them.

Hitler was a pretty mean dictator, yet he totally turned Germany around after the Western Powers violated the initial peace accords to impose the inequities of Versailles and raped the country for 10 years in the 20s (Yes, I am aware that it began with Stresemann and Kellogg-Briand/Locarno back in '27-'28...).

More importantly, the sum of the policy of aiding the Rebellion could probably be tied to the decisions or heck, /awareness/ of less than 1% of the ruling class of Alderaan.

The GNP of the planet would be worth considerably more than Bael Organa's head on a stick.

Which is why you go to Alderaan, dial up your psyops transmitters to override the local holonet stations and announce: "Thanks to these hidden recordings (role tape), we now know that Alderaan is engaged in seditious activities in support of the illegal terrorist organization known as 'The Alliance to Restore the Republic.' Because it is realized that not everyone on the planet could have known of this illicit and treasonous cooperation and as we are far more merciful than your present leadership, we are hereby giving you 24hrs to kill the entire royal family in a public location, telecast live on the Holonet. OR ELSE, the huge battlestation you currently see above your home world will blow up the entire planet."

Now why does this make more sense? Well, because the it gives said population the illusion of sustaining control over their own lives by both removing a direct threat to their existence. And nominally appointing a self-chosen replacement.

This -next- leadership then having their behavior held hostage in a fashion that is far more likely to be self-mindering effective. From both sides.

And because if the government flees -after- having engaged in a duplicitous act of high treason for which the population can expect to bear the brunt of any national responsibility, then obliterating the planet remains your choice.

As say a function of alternately demanding a military governancy and utter condemnation of the ruling family along with official requests for extradition back to Alderaan (or wherever) to face trial. 'Or Else'.

Transferring the weight of potential planetcide to each new society the Organa's flee to.

This is basic Borgia`/Machiavelli type, 'Dictatorship 101', stuff here. Always set the people against their leadership. And always make the leadership directly responsible for (production quotas, mandatory death sentences, general policy enforcement etc. etc.) that is certain to make them the enemy of the people.

So that they are locked in an eternal embrace of compromised personal ethics as the only means to assure both parties survival by toeing the line, together.

It's not like the Death Star plans clearly label a weakness. It's a moon-sized battlestation with one 2-meter hole in it. A 2-meter hole defended by a crapload of turbolasers and TIE Fighters. Which no Rebel pilot, using the targeting systems of their fighters, could hit. Only Luke, who had the Force, was able to do it.

I put that poorly, because it's not the plans themselves which are necessarily the threat. I would expect a security screen and sanitizing force to pre-sweep any system the Death Star was headed for to protect it from high yield mines or ambush attack. As well as to provide accurate targeting and general exclusive operating area blockout of local space.

Just like we do with a CVSF.

This could also be important if 'certain segments' of the threat society attempt to flee the jurisdiction as it were.

Yet the fact remains that this is an 'unloseable' capital platform. And so whether to supply added TIEs to the pathetic compliment onboard. Or act as a high station flak tower able to see across longer LOS distances in denying the snub attack a viable threat floor standoff. Or just as a force to preattrite the enemy in a general sense, reverse orbiting the gas giant as a kind of gauntlet to a QRA scramble.

You cannot tell me it was not hugely irresponsible for the bad guys to risk so much on untried technology interactions still in their shakingdown phase.

Not when the propaganda value of losing such an asset is so high for the Rebels.

Yeah, "fire the writer" after the first Star Wars movie. Billions of people would disagree with you.

I don't believe George Lucas wrote 'Star Wars' I believe a consortia of his friends acting as ghosts did. If so, then for pities sake, add a technical advisor with some awareness of military subjects and make the SE releases truly special by _improving the story_ rather than just the cinematography/FX production levels.


LEG

[Darth Yan]

Given the sheer size of such a file (160km battle station would certainly be a huge file) the imperial intelligence would definately notice and spring into action. In short, the sheer amount of data made it so conspicuous that it would be too risky. and why does leg hate the series so much to the point of manufacturing criticism?

[Batman]

That file would be huge by OUR standards. Apparently NOT by Wars standards as Leia was able to squeeze it into whatever free memory an R2 astromech droid has. I doubt that sheer amount of data is all that unusual in a transmission.

[Srelex]

Really? I'm sure an unauthorized transmission of an enormous file that happens to correspond with the size of the readouts for a moon-sized battlestation would be rather noticeable to the Imps. Unless, of course, they download porno by the library.

[Batman]

Who says the transmission was unauthorized? Leia was, at the time, an Imperial Senator. And I'm sorry, you seriously expect them to recognize the transmission as the Death Star plans by FILE SIZE?

[Srelex]

She was under suspicion, wasn't she? And why not? I don't find it inconcievable for Imperial authorities to look out for 'file sizes of suspicious nature, e.g. 1.567 biggabytes' or whatever. Similar principle to unusually large bank deposits often tipping off the authorities in RL.