Who did pay the bills of the Jedi Order?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-24 03:37pm

NecronLord wrote:So they buy them with the money from the official jedi merchendise...

Well considering how well SW merchandise sells in this reality, and how many worlds are in the SW universe...

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-02-24 03:39pm

According to the original HoloNet News website, some company started producing Jedi trading cards that were selling really well, but the Jedi were upset about people capitalizing off of them, and tried to shut the company down. Let me find the article...

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-02-24 03:46pm

Here is the article about the Jedi trying to stop the Jedi trading cards. However, they didn't voice any problems with the Jedi featured in the "Heroes of the Republic" collectibles distributed at Biscuit Baron, described here.

So I don't think the Jedi fund themselves through Jedi merchandise.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 08:33pm

According to Rogue Planet, the Jedi Order receives funds from the government for government missions, but these are limited. Additional money flows in from private individuals and companies that have some reason to thank the Jedi, or to support their cause. Over the years, the Jedi Order has saved and invested a substantial portion of these additional funds, and as a result is considered quite well-off in the Galaxy.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-24 08:40pm

Master of Ossus wrote:According to Rogue Planet, the Jedi Order receives funds from the government for government missions, but these are limited. Additional money flows in from private individuals and companies that have some reason to thank the Jedi, or to support their cause. Over the years, the Jedi Order has saved and invested a substantial portion of these additional funds, and as a result is considered quite well-off in the Galaxy.

Broker jedis? Uhh, I do not really like the jedis being businessmen, but it is still more real than infinite financial support from the government.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 08:42pm

vakundok wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:According to Rogue Planet, the Jedi Order receives funds from the government for government missions, but these are limited. Additional money flows in from private individuals and companies that have some reason to thank the Jedi, or to support their cause. Over the years, the Jedi Order has saved and invested a substantial portion of these additional funds, and as a result is considered quite well-off in the Galaxy.
Broker jedis? Uhh, I do not really like the jedis being businessmen, but it is still more real than infinite financial support from the government.

Oops, actually I'm re-reading the relevent passage. There's actually no evidence that the Jedi invest their finances. In fact, they appear not to even put it in a BANK, and merely have a huge vault filled with capital. I guess that the Jedi training they undergo doesn't cover economics.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-02-24 08:50pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
vakundok wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:According to Rogue Planet, the Jedi Order receives funds from the government for government missions, but these are limited. Additional money flows in from private individuals and companies that have some reason to thank the Jedi, or to support their cause. Over the years, the Jedi Order has saved and invested a substantial portion of these additional funds, and as a result is considered quite well-off in the Galaxy.
Broker jedis? Uhh, I do not really like the jedis being businessmen, but it is still more real than infinite financial support from the government.
Oops, actually I'm re-reading the relevent passage. There's actually no evidence that the Jedi invest their finances. In fact, they appear not to even put it in a BANK, and merely have a huge vault filled with capital. I guess that the Jedi training they undergo doesn't cover economics.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Treasure Planet from Silverhawks. It was a whole planet just filled with gold and jewels and stuff, and that's where the government kept its money. Of course, MonStar tried to rob the planet.
Also similar to Scrooge McDuck's vault.

I guess the point is: that's crazy. The Jedi sure are lucky they can kick the crap out of anybody who could want to rob their vault.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-02-24 08:58pm

Robert Treder wrote:For some reason I'm reminded of the Treasure Planet from Silverhawks. It was a whole planet just filled with gold and jewels and stuff, and that's where the government kept its money. Of course, MonStar tried to rob the planet.
Also similar to Scrooge McDuck's vault.

I guess the point is: that's crazy. The Jedi sure are lucky they can kick the crap out of anybody who could want to rob their vault.

I used to love Scrooge McDuff's huge vault. The problem is, it's not just a security risk. Impounding such huge fortunes worth of funds also creates a strain on the economic system as a whole, and would lead to instability. Now, in a Galactic sense the Jedi might not be able to signficantly alter the economy by impounding what little they have, but the fact that they so rarely release substantial sums of money would adversely affect performance on a planetary or even a sectorial scale.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-25 02:48am

Interesting. Why did Qui-gon did not change his money to the local one by an other merchant who was more sensitive to mind tricks?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-25 10:37am

vakundok wrote:Interesting. Why did Qui-gon did not change his money to the local one by an other merchant who was more sensitive to mind tricks?

It seemed to be a fairly substantial amount of money. If he tricked a money lender to exchange that much and gave him what amounted to be worthless currency, that could seriously hurt the lender financially. I doubt Qui-gon would do something like that.

David the Hutt · Post by **David the Hutt** » 2003-02-25 10:42am

In Star Wars Rogue Planet, It says that the Jedi have an account where people can donate money to them. I think they get most of their money from donations. They probably got an annual donation from the government.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-25 12:47pm

David the Hutt wrote:In Star Wars Rogue Planet, It says that the Jedi have an account where people can donate money to them. I think they get most of their money from donations. They probably got an annual donation from the government.

I wonder if they had to pay taxes.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-25 03:05pm

neoolong wrote:
vakundok wrote:Interesting. Why did Qui-gon did not change his money to the local one by an other merchant who was more sensitive to mind tricks?
It seemed to be a fairly substantial amount of money. If he tricked a money lender to exchange that much and gave him what amounted to be worthless currency, that could seriously hurt the lender financially. I doubt Qui-gon would do something like that.

No, Qui-Gon wasn't interested in ripping Greedo off when dealing with genuine property; when dealing with slaves, however, he was willing to cheat a little bit.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-25 03:46pm

neoolong wrote:
vakundok wrote:Interesting. Why did Qui-gon did not change his money to the local one by an other merchant who was more sensitive to mind tricks?
It seemed to be a fairly substantial amount of money. If he tricked a money lender to exchange that much and gave him what amounted to be worthless currency, that could seriously hurt the lender financially. I doubt Qui-gon would do something like that.

At the first try Qui-gon did not use mind trick so it suggests that his offer was not worthless.
However he wouldn't mind to (more or less) hurt Watto. Since slavery was quite common on Tatooin that even a farmer could by one I think all local merchants have slaves. So I think it wouldn't cause any moral problem to Qui-gon to "use" any of them. Besides not only one but more merchants could be used eg: 4 merchants changing 5000 daktaris each.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-25 03:48pm

vakundok wrote:
neoolong wrote:
vakundok wrote:Interesting. Why did Qui-gon did not change his money to the local one by an other merchant who was more sensitive to mind tricks?
It seemed to be a fairly substantial amount of money. If he tricked a money lender to exchange that much and gave him what amounted to be worthless currency, that could seriously hurt the lender financially. I doubt Qui-gon would do something like that.
At the first try Qui-gon did not use mind trick so it suggests that his offer was not worthless.
However he wouldn't mind to (more or less) hurt Watto. Since slavery was quite common on Tatooin that even a farmer could by one I think all local merchants have slaves. So I think it wouldn't cause any moral problem to Qui-gon to "use" any of them. Besides not only one but more merchants could be used eg: 4 merchants changing 5000 daktaris each.

Well, at least he was trying to give him SOME compensation, he could have probably just stolen it and escaped Tatooine before Greedo even noticed.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-02-25 03:56pm

vakundok wrote:At the first try Qui-gon did not use mind trick so it suggests that his offer was not worthless.
However he wouldn't mind to (more or less) hurt Watto. Since slavery was quite common on Tatooin that even a farmer could by one I think all local merchants have slaves. So I think it wouldn't cause any moral problem to Qui-gon to "use" any of them. Besides not only one but more merchants could be used eg: 4 merchants changing 5000 daktaris each.

The money was valid. It was just not accepted in that area. It would be like trying to buy something here with money from France, except you couldn't go to France to use it. So it's basically worthless currency to you.

Same with Watto. Besides if Qui-gon figured that Watto wouldn't take the money, there was no reason to assume that anybody else would. And Qui-gon didn't seem like the type to trick people to exchange money, even if it wasn't that much.

And like Korr says, he could have just stolen it if he wanted to.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2003-02-25 08:57pm

The Republic probably didn't finance the Jedi directly. Given the lukewarm to hostile perceptions of the Jedi from various sectors of the galaxy, it is very likely that the debate over Jedi financing would have been an incredibly divisive issue that the political leadership would have tried to resolve out of Senate whenever fiscal policy came to the floor.

The Jedi probably established some businesses and corporations that they could milk money from, and probably accepted donations from various galactic sources. Who knows, maybe some of the major ship manufactuers in the galaxy during the rebellion era were initially started up with financial backing from various Jedi sources.

In return for little or no taxation on their income, the Jedi might have offered their services to the Republic. This would have been acceptable to the Jedi since hypothetically speaking both the Old Republic and the Jedi were working for the common good. But given the temperment of the Jedi, the government over time probably grew more selective when deciding what kind of missions to send the Jedi on (no assassinations, cloak and dagger stuff, etc etc).

The bottom line is the Jedi probably had to maintain a certain degree of independence from the Republic when it came to financing. Deciding the issue in the senate probably would have been a divisive battle, that the leadership probably would have wanted to avoid.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-02-26 12:36am

Master of Ossus wrote:
Robert Treder wrote:For some reason I'm reminded of the Treasure Planet from Silverhawks. It was a whole planet just filled with gold and jewels and stuff, and that's where the government kept its money. Of course, MonStar tried to rob the planet.
Also similar to Scrooge McDuck's vault.

I guess the point is: that's crazy. The Jedi sure are lucky they can kick the crap out of anybody who could want to rob their vault.
I used to love Scrooge McDuff's huge vault. The problem is, it's not just a security risk. Impounding such huge fortunes worth of funds also creates a strain on the economic system as a whole, and would lead to instability. Now, in a Galactic sense the Jedi might not be able to signficantly alter the economy by impounding what little they have, but the fact that they so rarely release substantial sums of money would adversely affect performance on a planetary or even a sectorial scale.

I always loved that myself. I remember one comic had a whole page dedicated to the calcs this one guy did on how much volume would actually be taken up by Scrooge's wealth or something like that.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-26 04:55am

neoolong wrote:The money was valid. It was just not accepted in that area. It would be like trying to buy something here with money from France, except you couldn't go to France to use it. So it's basically worthless currency to you.

This example, especially "except you couldn't go to France to use it" suggests that Tatooin had no commercial links to the Republic, which I think was not the case. Qui-gon had no doubt that on Tatooin they could get spare parts for a yacht that was built in the Republic which required commercial links.

Besides if Qui-gon figured that Watto wouldn't take the money, there was no reason to assume that anybody else would. And Qui-gon didn't seem like the type to trick people to exchange money, even if it wasn't that much.

He tried to trick Watto. What was the difference between Watto and others in Qui-gon's point of view?

And like Korr says, he could have just stolen it if he wanted to.

Yes, so why he didn't do that? In the novelization he stole an energy cell or something to Anakin.

Coaan · Post by **Coaan** » 2003-02-26 05:04am

Naboo and Geonosis were completely different situations. Apples and oranges.

The blockade on Naboo, for all intents and purposes, did appear, from an outside perspective, to be a non-violent blockade in protest to the taxation of trade routes rather than an aggressive manuever against the people of Naboo. It did not require intervention immediately after its discovery. It does appear that no one had any idea what was really going on on the planet, including the Jedi.

So the jedi in their infinite wisdom did nothing when the planet was invaded?..it is the same fucking thing, it is an attack on the republic the moment the tf started landing their troops and in that moment They should have responded. Yoda was able to 'feel' Anikin through the force in the second so why could they not in the first to gain some answers, Or attempt to try and read the future?

Apples and apples I'm afraid. It merely comes down to incompetant leading on the Jedi's part

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-26 05:29am

Hmm, I think I will start a topic about the independence and authority of the Jedi Order and a topic about pre-clones Republic military.

I read somewhere (in the novelization of AoTC or TPM, but I canot find) that some of the jedis were artists but I still canot imagine a jedi selling something. Not even information. "The jedis were guards of peace and knowledge." Donations are possible but we have no evidence that queen Amidala and later senator Amidala would do it when the jedis saved her.
I think I am going to change my mind and accept that the Republic financed the Jedi Order through annual budget or even occassional payments. I forgot the possibility that the finance of jedis could be in the constitution of the Republic or something similar on the level above the daily political encounters.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-02-26 05:44am

Coaan wrote:So the jedi in their infinite wisdom did nothing when the planet was invaded?..it is the same fucking thing, it is an attack on the republic the moment the tf started landing their troops and in that moment They should have responded. Yoda was able to 'feel' Anikin through the force in the second so why could they not in the first to gain some answers, Or attempt to try and read the future?

Apples and apples I'm afraid. It merely comes down to incompetant leading on the Jedi's part

I questioned this previously and Korr answered as probably the Republic prohibited them what I highly doubted.
The fact that they did not react to the situation on Naboo is against everything we know about the overall mission of the jedis. It seems to be a huge logical bug.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-02-28 09:52pm

That makes me think of something. Is the government's funding of the Jedi a violation of the separation of church and state?

I didn't know such a clause existed in the Republic constitution? ; )

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2003-04-14 01:11pm

I think I found out how the Jedi can get such a high income:

1) Jedi Master Aayla Secura: Twi'lek, prefers a "moving meditation"
2) Jedi Master Luminara Unduli: high flexibility
3) Jedi Master (or Knight?) Barris Offee: skilled in complementing her partner so the sum is greater than the parts

They make videos of them "meditating", and sell them. Result: lots of money for the Jedi coffers.

<VBEG>

I am going to get flamed for this one, I bet.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-04-14 01:34pm

EVIL NECROMANCY BEGONE!!!

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Who did pay the bills of the Jedi Order?

Finally found her name