The Clone Wars Season 4.

[Darksider]

Rally? I've always liked Ackbar as the wizened commander type. I thought it was cheap to have him go all action hero.

As for the ep, it was fun to watch, and the action scenes were great. Those knife-bombs were brutal though. I can imagine a few kiddies getting nightmares over them.

[The Romulan Republic]

Now I can't help but wonder what happened to the prince during the Empire. Was he still King when the Empire took over and enslaved his people again? Did he lead the uprising against Imperial rule too?

[freker]

Am I the only one having issues with underwater light-saber use?

Ok, I am willing to go as far as agree that they could still work underwater. But was it too much to ask to have a constant flow of bubbles coming from it or something? The things look exactly like they work in air.

[The Romulan Republic]

Tonight's episode was alright. On the one hand, an episode full of Gungans is kind of annoying. On the other hand, they were actually kind of cool. Poor Grievous. Being captured by Gungans will not help his reputation. I'm surprised they went to the trouble to get him back.

It shouldn't have taken so long to figure out Jar Jar wasn't really the leader though. That was rather silly.

All in all though, it was pretty good. It was nice to see Sideous and Dooku show up again. I also like how competent they've made Dooku in this series.

[Darksider]

I was hoping they'd extend this into a two-parter. Capturing grevious and trading him for Anakin seems like a plot that should take more than one episode. Hooray for Amidala's idiocy dooming the galaxy and completely wasting general Tarpal's sacrifice.

[The Romulan Republic]

I was hoping they'd extend this into a two-parter. Capturing grevious and trading him for Anakin seems like a plot that should take more than one episode. Hooray for Amidala's idiocy dooming the galaxy and completely wasting general Tarpal's sacrifice.

First, yes this would have made a good two-parter.

Second, why put so much blame on Amidala? She showed considerable reluctance to return Grievous considering it was her husband on the line, and she was talked into it by Jar Jar and the Gungan leader. I could also argue that getting back the Chosen One, who is also one of your best commanders, is worth giving up Grievous.

[Darksider]

Jar Jar and Boss whatever may have convinced Amidala, but she was the ranking Republic political leader there. She was the only one with the authority to enact a prisoner exchange. Grevious is the commander in chief of the Droid Armies. The intelligence they could get from him far outweighs the loss of a single Jedi Knight, chosen one or no.

[ComradeClaus]

Os it me, or was that gungan traitor named RICHELOU, as in the French Cardinal? The Boss was a total idiot confronting the traitor before telling his people to cancel the attack.

Also, if amidala had any brains, she'd have snuck a thermal detonator into grevious' body while he was out. after the exchange... grievous goes BOOM when he's w/ Dooku. XD

It seemed that the TradeFed landing ship was smaller than normal (it should easily be large enough to fit several droid transports inside.) & the gungans had surprisingly little trouble turning the droids off.

Grievous & Anakin were seriously Worfed in this episode.

Taarpal was pretty badass when he died though. kinda shocked they showed a closeup of his face... sleep tight kiddies! Same w/ last weeks blowing up of the shark guy, watching a chunk of his head floating at the screen, kinda like Jaws 3D.

BTW, isn't it stupid that the made a race of shark aliens the BAD guys for the Mon Cal arc? How RACIST!

[The Romulan Republic]

Planting a detonator on Grievous would probably violate some sort of convention on the treatment of prisoners. Amidala's a good guy, remember?

I thought Grievous and Anakin both did well though, at least in terms of combat. Grievous killed Tarpals and was taken off guard by a last ditch attack (remember, Grievous has no precognition). Then he was finally brought down by a bunch of the Gungan energy things. His only failures were to not figure out who Jar Jar was faster, and let an ally who's reliability was in question near the the controls for his droids. Anakin, meanwhile, held his own against Dooku, and only went down to a combination of Dooku and several combat droids. Not bad at all.

[Darth Fanboy]

Jar Jar and Boss whatever may have convinced Amidala, but she was the ranking Republic political leader there. She was the only one with the authority to enact a prisoner exchange. Grevious is the commander in chief of the Droid Armies. The intelligence they could get from him far outweighs the loss of a single Jedi Knight, chosen one or no.

If that is true, then wouldn't it be true that Anakin could become a valuable source of intel for the Separatists? Not to mention that Sidious has plans for Anakin that aren't served by keeping him locked up in a Separatist prison.

[TC Pilot]

Keep in mind, Padme actually says that capturing Greivous could end the war.

She doesn't exactly agonize over the decision, though having to get it over with in the all of two minutes left in the show is probably mostly to blame.

But yeah, another of the many reasons why Padme is a complete scumbag.

[Metahive]

Would capturing/killing Grievous really end the war? Grievous himself was a replacement for the deceased Sev'rance Tann, why is it unthinkable that he can be replaced too?

[Vympel]

I don't know about anyone else, but I found the prolonged look of terror on Jar Jar's face when he met General Grievous absolutely hilarious.

[TC Pilot]

I thought it was funnier how he was panic-pressing the elevator door button when Grievous started ranting about himself. Seems to be a trend. They did the same think in the old animated cartoon.

Would capturing/killing Grievous really end the war? Grievous himself was a replacement for the deceased Sev'rance Tann, why is it unthinkable that he can be replaced too?

They, or at least the Jedi, seem to think so in ROTS.

[Darth Fanboy]

They, or at least the Jedi, seem to think so in ROTS.

Not until after Dooku is killed though.

[Darksider]

Quick question. Does anyone know if they're releasing the soundtracks from the show? I think the music in this series is just awesome, and I have the soundtrack for the movie, but I haven't seen one for the series.

[RogueIce]

Well, when I first saw the description I was a little wary. Not because of "lol Gungans" but because I was worried it would be another Water Wars. I...didn't really enjoy those in the Mon Cal arc. Sure it was well done and all, but it just lacked something, I dunno. Luckily, the action was on dry land this time.

I will say I loved the scenery in this episode, especially the weather. The storm when the Gungans were confronting Greivous was excellent and really added to it, and that sunset at the end was awesome. I really liked how it was one of those "stormy sky" kind of sunsets; not only because they are visually amazing, but also due to the continuity of "yes, there was recently a storm and we're not just treating it as a one-off scenery device, because here's what it looks like shortly after it leaves". The weather was just fantastic, and I liked they put attention to detail in it, because really, how many people pay attention to things like that?

Aside from me, of course.

[The Romulan Republic]

Keep in mind, Padme actually says that capturing Greivous could end the war.

She doesn't exactly agonize over the decision, though having to get it over with in the all of two minutes left in the show is probably mostly to blame.

But yeah, another of the many reasons why Padme is a complete scumbag.

Out of curiosity, what other reasons do you have for claiming Padme is a scumbag?

I also don't think this is as clear cut a decision as you seem to think it is. Its more than just the fact that its her husband we're talking about here- Anakin is pretty damn important to the Republic war effort. He's a publicly beloved hero so his death or imprisonment would be a blow to moral and a propaganda loss. He's also a highly skilled commander, and he will have a lot of intelligence.

[TC Pilot]

Out of curiosity, what other reasons do you have for claiming Padme is a scumbag?

Another good episode that highlights this is that Senate schenanigans episode from last season. So here's this Senator, mind you scolding other Senators for not looking after their constituents, preaching the virtues of democracy, and championing the plight of the poor and downtrodden...

...a Senator appointed to office by her Queen (the Senators she scolds throw the accusation back in her face, funny enough), who loudly declares "I am a Senator, I demand you arrest this man!" and who changes her clothes three times in the course of a single episode (in a show where characters wear the same thing for entire seasons) all while her servants' families starve.

Let's take some things from the movies: blithely accepting Anakin's admission to genocide, her constant efforts to thwart any preparation for war in AOTC and her continued attempts to stop the fighting to negotiate in ROTS, negotiate, mind you, with the same people who a decade earlier occupied her planet and she subsequently defeated in a violent uprising she led after refusing to wait to negotiate.

What else? Oh yeah, leaving her newborn twins orphans after losing the will to live.

I also don't think this is as clear cut a decision as you seem to think it is. Its more than just the fact that its her husband we're talking about here- Anakin is pretty damn important to the Republic war effort. He's a publicly beloved hero so his death or imprisonment would be a blow to moral and a propaganda loss. He's also a highly skilled commander, and he will have a lot of intelligence.

It not being clear cut is precisely the point. She spends no time considering the ramifications of her actions, consults no one, and does something I seriously doubt is anywhere near her authority to do. She did the same thing last season, unilaterally heading into enemy territory to negotiate with a Seperatist leader. That Anakin is her husband makes things even worse; she's the very last person who should be making a decision that could (as she acknowledges) impact the course of the entire war, even if it's within her rights to release the supreme commander of the enemy army.

[The Romulan Republic]

Another good episode that highlights this is that Senate schenanigans episode from last season. So here's this Senator, mind you scolding other Senators for not looking after their constituents, preaching the virtues of democracy, and championing the plight of the poor and downtrodden...

All of which are perfectly noble goals.

...a Senator appointed to office by her Queen (the Senators she scolds throw the accusation back in her face, funny enough), who loudly declares "I am a Senator, I demand you arrest this man!" and who changes her clothes three times in the course of a single episode (in a show where characters wear the same thing for entire seasons) all while her servants' families starve.

Padme can't help the fact she was appointed by her Queen, can she? Does she have the power to single-handidly alter the Naboo Constitution? I suppose she could have nobly refused the appointment to Senator. Or maybe she could have changed the Constitution as Queen, though we don't know much about how Naboo government works, do we?

I'd need some context for the arrest scene. As for the clothing thing, I guess it depends on weather you feel being rich while there are starving people around you makes one inherently a bad person. Probably their are also expectations on how a government official is supposed to look that she would be expected to follow.

Let's take some things from the movies: blithely accepting Anakin's admission to genocide,

How does destroying one village qualify as genocide? Regardless, I'll agree this scene does not make her look good. Probably a case of Padme being a basically good person who can be irrational when it comes to someone she loves. Which makes her a lot like Anakin, actually.

her constant efforts to thwart any preparation for war in AOTC and her continued attempts to stop the fighting to negotiate in ROTS, negotiate, mind you, with the same people who a decade earlier occupied her planet and she subsequently defeated in a violent uprising she led after refusing to wait to negotiate.

Trying to prevent war is a bad thing now? By your definition, all pacifists are scumbags?

True, it is a bit contradictory compared to her actions in the Naboo invasion. Maybe Padme's views changed over the thirteen or so intervening years?

What else? Oh yeah, leaving her newborn twins orphans after losing the will to live.

Sometimes people just can't take any more. Everyone has their limit. I'd think that's more something to pity her for than condemn her for.

It not being clear cut is precisely the point. She spends no time considering the ramifications of her actions, consults no one, and does something I seriously doubt is anywhere near her authority to do. She did the same thing last season, unilaterally heading into enemy territory to negotiate with a Seperatist leader. That Anakin is her husband makes things even worse; she's the very last person who should be making a decision that could (as she acknowledges) impact the course of the entire war, even if it's within her rights to release the supreme commander of the enemy army.

We have no idea weather she consulted or considered. Well, at the very least she did consult with the Gungans. And her Queen was at the prisoner swap as I recall, so she knew what was going on and could have objected. Also, Dooku didn't exactly give her a lot of time- it was an hour as I recall. I doubt their was time to convene a meeting of the Senate or the Jedi Council to discuss the swap. She could have gone straight to Palpatine and asked him- and we know damn well what his answer would have been.

I agree, it being her husband creates a conflict of interest. The problems with secret marriages...

[TC Pilot]

Padme can't help the fact she was appointed by her Queen, can she? Does she have the power to single-handidly alter the Naboo Constitution? I suppose she could have nobly refused the appointment to Senator. Or maybe she could have changed the Constitution as Queen, though we don't know much about how Naboo government works, do we?

Serving by appointment in and of itself isn't the matter, it's her pretense that she is in some way a democratic representative of the people, and that she has the self-righteous gall to scold her colleagues on the matter.

I confess I've not been entirely clear. I've only called Padme a scumbag, when, more specifically, I consider her a self-righteous, hypocritical moron.

I'd need some context for the arrest scene.

She's being pursued on speeder bike by the pair of thugs that have been attacking Senators and the police give chase. She gets herself cornered but the police arrive before anything happens with the intent of arresting her for reckless driving.

It's just rather amusing that her first instinct is to invoke her position of power and literally demand the police arrest them, rather than yelling for help or something.

As for the clothing thing, I guess it depends on weather you feel being rich while there are starving people around you makes one inherently a bad person.

You're missing the point, which is that she's not paying her own employees enough to even keep their families fed while she's got the largest wardrobe in the entire galaxy.

Probably their are also expectations on how a government official is supposed to look that she would be expected to follow.

Except she's the only one who doesn't seem to rely on a single outfit.

How does destroying one village qualify as genocide?

Hmm... I thought there was a line in there about wanting to kill all of them. My mistake. I'll go with "massacre" instead.

Trying to prevent war is a bad thing now? By your definition, all pacifists are scumbags?

First, Padme is not a pacifist. She's quite ready to pick up a gun and kill people. "Aggressive negotiations," and all that.

Second, you're missing the point. It's not that trying to avert (or end via mutual agreement) war is bad, it's her hypocritical stand. So when it's her homeworld that's under attack, screw negotiations and raise an army. But when it's someone else, Noooooo, we have to negotiate, the principles of the Republic are at stake!

Actually, that reminds me of her arrival on Geonosis in AOTC. She insists on finding a diplomatic solution, but they've barely gone down a single hallway before Anakin turns his lightsaber on a group of natives without a word of protest. For what it's worth, there's a deleted scene immediately after their capture where all she does is "formally request" Obi-Wan's release, accuse the Seperatists of rebellion, and considers joining them "forsaking all I honor and work for" and a "betrayal." Funny, considering in the deleted Senate scene, she says "Wake up, Senators! If you offer them violence, they can only show violence in return!"

Maybe Padme's views changed over the thirteen or so intervening years?

Maybe, but I don't think so. She voices somewhat the same opinion in parts of TPM, insisting that they have to find a peaceful solution to the Trade Federation invasion, at least until Qui-Gon takes charge of things.

Sometimes people just can't take any more. Everyone has their limit. I'd think that's more something to pity her for than condemn her for.

Pity and condemnation aren't mutually exclusive. Effectively abandoning her newborn children because she's, basically, sad her husband turned out to be a psychopath is, at least in my view, absolutely pathetic. It's a total failure of responsibility, and rather in line with her character.

It not being clear cut is precisely the point. She spends no time considering the ramifications of her actions, consults no one, and does something I seriously doubt is anywhere near her authority to do. She did the same thing last season, unilaterally heading into enemy territory to negotiate with a Seperatist leader. That Anakin is her husband makes things even worse; she's the very last person who should be making a decision that could (as she acknowledges) impact the course of the entire war, even if it's within her rights to release the supreme commander of the enemy army.

We have no idea weather she consulted or considered.

That's just an appeal to ignorance. The episode immediately cuts from Jar Jar and the Gungan leader telling her its the right thing to do to the actual prisoner transfer.

Well, at the very least she did consult with the Gungans.

No, she didn't. They were in the room with her, and spoke up unprompted.

And her Queen was at the prisoner swap as I recall, so she knew what was going on and could have objected.

Yeah, that would have been nice. Like I said earlier, there just wasn't enough time left in the show for that sort of thing. But simply guessing what may have gone on is worthless.

She could have gone straight to Palpatine and asked him- and we know damn well what his answer would have been.

That's pretty much what she should have done.

That it would have resulted in the same outcome is irrelevant. Padme is not privy to the fact Palpatine is the evil Sith Lord controlling both sides of the war.

[Darth Fanboy]

Let's take some things from the movies: blithely accepting Anakin's admission to genocide,

How does destroying one village qualify as genocide? Regardless, I'll agree this scene does not make her look good. Probably a case of Padme being a basically good person who can be irrational when it comes to someone she loves. Which makes her a lot like Anakin, actually.

Padme didn't believe Obi Wan when he said to her outright in RoTS that he had seen the video of him killing children. She hasn't accepted anything, what she is guilty of is a severe case of denial. Far less so in AoTC if we make the reasonable allowance that she may have not believed Anakin entirely after he returned, he was after all greiving for the very recent death of his mother.

her constant efforts to thwart any preparation for war in AOTC and her continued attempts to stop the fighting to negotiate in ROTS, negotiate, mind you, with the same people who a decade earlier occupied her planet and she subsequently defeated in a violent uprising she led after refusing to wait to negotiate.

Trying to prevent war is a bad thing now? By your definition, all pacifists are scumbags?

True, it is a bit contradictory compared to her actions in the Naboo invasion. Maybe Padme's views changed over the thirteen or so intervening years?

Npthing changed about her views at all, Padme is consistently depicted as willing and able to fight if it is absolutely necessary to do so and we see her do so in two films plus the current series. It's quite obvious that despite her willingness to fight she also greatly prefers that no fighting take place to begin with, hence repeated attempts at negotiation.

As for the bolded portion it is incorrect to directly compare the two. The Trade Federation is not the equivalent of the CIS, despite playing a major role in providing funds and war material and holding a leadership position they are not the be-all and end-all. In TPM the Trade Federation was currently occupying one planet and actively engaging in hostilities against civilians, in AoTC shots had not yet been fired in what was building up to be a full fledged war on a galactic scale.

What else? Oh yeah, leaving her newborn twins orphans after losing the will to live.

Sometimes people just can't take any more. Everyone has their limit. I'd think that's more something to pity her for than condemn her for.

It wasn't the best dialogue, but even from an in-universe perspective it's incredibly unfair to call Padme "scum" because she was unable to survive childbirth. For all we know she held on just long enough to deliver the babies, there is no one to blame but Anakin for her death and the twins not having a mother.

It not being clear cut is precisely the point. She spends no time considering the ramifications of her actions, consults no one, and does something I seriously doubt is anywhere near her authority to do. She did the same thing last season, unilaterally heading into enemy territory to negotiate with a Seperatist leader. That Anakin is her husband makes things even worse; she's the very last person who should be making a decision that could (as she acknowledges) impact the course of the entire war, even if it's within her rights to release the supreme commander of the enemy army.

We have no idea weather she consulted or considered. Well, at the very least she did consult with the Gungans. And her Queen was at the prisoner swap as I recall, so she knew what was going on and could have objected. Also, Dooku didn't exactly give her a lot of time- it was an hour as I recall. I doubt their was time to convene a meeting of the Senate or the Jedi Council to discuss the swap. She could have gone straight to Palpatine and asked him- and we know damn well what his answer would have been.

I agree, it being her husband creates a conflict of interest. The problems with secret marriages...

It would actually be an incredibly interesting plot point if she did suffer criticism for doing so in a later episode, and then Palpatine makes moves to suppress said criticism. A few episodes where Sith machinations negatively effect the CIS would be pretty entertaining and seeing the clones start emerging as bad guys would be an extra bonus.

[TC Pilot]

It wasn't the best dialogue, but even from an in-universe perspective it's incredibly unfair to call Padme "scum" because she was unable to survive childbirth. For all we know she held on just long enough to deliver the babies, there is no one to blame but Anakin for her death and the twins not having a mother.

Keep in mind, the medical droid announces that "medically, she's completely healthy" and that they'll have to operate to save the twins.

So, yeah, Luke and Leia were born in spite of Padme's mental state. Anakin's Force Choke did nothing to physically kill her.

Edit -

Here's the actual dialouge:
MEDICAL DROID: Medically, she is completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her.
OBI-WAN: She's dying?
MEDICAL DROID: We don't know why. She has lost the will to live. We need to operate quickly if we are to save the babies.

[Darksider]

IIRC that's been retconned into the Polis Massa doctors sucking shit.

The "official" line is that she was killed by trachea damage they were too stupid to detect.

[Darth Fanboy]

Keep in mind, the medical droid announces that "medically, she's completely healthy" and that they'll have to operate to save the twins.

So, yeah, Luke and Leia were born in spite of Padme's mental state. Anakin's Force Choke did nothing to physically kill her.

Edit -

Here's the actual dialouge:
MEDICAL DROID: Medically, she is completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her.
OBI-WAN: She's dying?
MEDICAL DROID: We don't know why. She has lost the will to live. We need to operate quickly if we are to save the babies.

I know the dialogue, hence why I mentioned that it was not well written. But unless we accept that the medical droids used on Polis Massa were somehow infallible and that Padme had some unseen ability that enabled her to kill herself (which if she was healthy completely then this would have to be the case) then your accusation makes no sense. We don't even know what "losing the will to live" even entails completely. Was she somehow in an unseen way disregarding her own well being and focusing on the survival of the twins? Could the Force have been involved? Her husband didn't have a father himself after all.