How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

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The Cooler King
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How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by The Cooler King »

I admit, I'm not a scientist or an economist, but this is interesting.

How Much Would it Cost to Build the Death Star?
Centives wrote: How Much Would it Cost to build the Death Star?

February 15, 2012 in Editorial

Building a massive space weapon is all very well, but you have to find the materials to build it with. It's easy to say that "sure, the Death Star would be expensive" but is there actually enough iron in the Earth to make the first Death Star? Centives decided to find out.

We began by looking at how big the Death Star is. The first one is reported to be 140km in diameter and it sure looks like it's made of steel. But how much steel? We decided to model the Death Star as having a similar density in steel as a modern warship. After all, they're both essentially floating weapons platforms so that seems reasonable.


Name: HMS Illustrious
Volume: 28,591.2 m3
Mass: 22,000 tonnes

Scaling up to the Death Star, this is about 1.08x1015 tonnes of steel. 1 with fifteen zeros.

Which seems like a colossal mass but we've calculated that from the iron in the earth, you could make just over 2 billion Death Stars. You see the Earth's crust may have a limited amount of iron, but the core is mostly our favourite metal and is both very big and very dense, and it's from here that most of our death-star iron would come.

Name: Death Star
Volume: 1,440,000 kilometres3
Mass: 1.08 x 1015 tonnes

But, before you go off to start building your apocalyptic weapon, do bear in mind two things. Firstly, the two billion death stars is mostly from the Earth's core which we would all really rather you didn't remove. And secondly, at today's rate of steel production (1.3 billion tonnes annually), it would take 833,315 years to produce enough steel to begin work. So once someone notices what you're up to, you have to fend them off for 800 millennia before you have a chance to fight back. In context, it takes under an hour to get the steel for HMS Illustrious.

Oh, and the cost of the steel alone? At 2012 prices, about $852,000,000,000,000,000. Or roughly 13,000 times the world's GDP.*

But then again, you can just take out a loan from the entire planet and then default on them in the most awesome way possible.


(For the record when converting between iron and steel, Centives assumed a medium steel of 99.5% iron)

*Centives erroneously reported this figure as $8,100,000,000,000,000, which was off by a magnitude of 100. We'd like to thank commenter Ianvl for pointing this out. Despite our original error, the cost of the death star still comes out to be 13,000 times the world's GDP as we originally reported. Sincere apologies for the mistake.

My apologies if this has already been posted or calculated before.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Panzersharkcat »

Well, it was mentioned in the Alderaan - Not a Planet of Traitors thread. If Darth Tedious is not wrong, just the structure would be about what it would take to feed Coruscant for a week. I have no idea if he is or not. Nobody has corrected him yet but I'm kind of iffy on his figures.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Darth Tedious »

Panzersharkcat wrote:Well, it was mentioned in the Alderaan - Not a Planet of Traitors thread. If Darth Tedious is not wrong, just the structure would be about what it would take to feed Coruscant for a week. I have no idea if he is or not. Nobody has corrected him yet but I'm kind of iffy on his figures.
I just looked at that again, blegh, I must have been off my head! :oops:
At a dollar a day, a trillion people, 368 days a year ('cause it's Coruscant!)...

2315 years.
Yeah, sorry about that.
On the bright side Dark Side, my numbers for waste disposal were spot-on, within the assumptions made.
I didn't show my calcs for the food figure, I wish I had so I could see how the hell I ended up with that number...
I'll still say my point about scope stands. And specifically, the scope of SW economics. How much must it cost to dispose of a billion tonnes of shit every day?

Mind, my actual (completely wrong) comparison was using their price for the DS, and was only meant to be illustrating a point about how big the Empire's budgets for EVERYTHING must be.

Their actual price is staggeringly underestimated.

Just for superstructure- and without going into any real detail at all- they based the price on mild steel. The DS is meant to be "quadanium steel" (yeah, it's made up), but it should be safe to assume that a special steel alloy which was created specifically for the DS project might be a little more pricey than plain low-carbon stuff.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Connor MacLeod »

I was briefly amused and fascinated by the considerations of the sort of sewer and waste disposal systme Coruscant must have from that thread. I kept having this mental image of the solid waste from two different biological species accidentally mixing with explosive results and blowing massive craters in the surface of the planet, or something.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by The Cooler King »

Darth Tedious wrote:I just looked at that again, blegh, I must have been off my head! :oops:
At a dollar a day, a trillion people, 368 days a year ('cause it's Coruscant!)...

2315 years.
Yeah, sorry about that.
On the bright side Dark Side, my numbers for waste disposal were spot-on, within the assumptions made.
I didn't show my calcs for the food figure, I wish I had so I could see how the hell I ended up with that number...
I'll still say my point about scope stands. And specifically, the scope of SW economics. How much must it cost to dispose of a billion tonnes of shit every day?

Mind, my actual (completely wrong) comparison was using their price for the DS, and was only meant to be illustrating a point about how big the Empire's budgets for EVERYTHING must be.

Their actual price is staggeringly underestimated.

Just for superstructure- and without going into any real detail at all- they based the price on mild steel. The DS is meant to be "quadanium steel" (yeah, it's made up), but it should be safe to assume that a special steel alloy which was created specifically for the DS project might be a little more pricey than plain low-carbon stuff.

The scale of it all kind of boggles the mind. That's probably why the LeHigh numbers are off, and why writers keep trying to minimize the scale of Star Wars. As for waste disposal, would they be able to burn the waste, and perhaps get some more energy out of it? Of course, they would be using even more energy to provide the incineration source...

Is it also safe to assume that 'quadanium steel' might be lighter than regular steel as well? I haven't read Death Star, or seen any other EU material on the construction of the Death Star (except the mention that Xizor helped in constructing the second one).
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Darth Tedious »

The Cooler King wrote:Is it also safe to assume that 'quadanium steel' might be lighter than regular steel as well? I haven't read Death Star, or seen any other EU material on the construction of the Death Star (except the mention that Xizor helped in constructing the second one).
I always thought it was a logical assumption.
It's a possibilty. You'd want to build something that big out of the lightest material possible.

And they had to invent the shit specially, so it must have some superlative quality about it (even if it's just super cheap- though you'd have to be planning on multiples for that to be worth your while).

Simply the fact that they had to R&D a new material for it would push the price up a huge amount.
Connor MacLeod wrote:I was briefly amused and fascinated by the considerations of the sort of sewer and waste disposal systme Coruscant must have from that thread. I kept having this mental image of the solid waste from two different biological species accidentally mixing with explosive results and blowing massive craters in the surface of the planet, or something.
That is a funny thought. The one that occurred to me was the idea that the huge, constant amount of air traffic you see on Coruscant is in fact, all just dedicated to ferrying shit around. Literally.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Where is it established that quadanium steel was invented for the DS? In the x-wing books its described as being the material used in TIE bomber wing panels, and is even comon enough that one character considers using it to make an engagement ring out of.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Connor MacLeod »

There's supposed to be millions of races in the SW galaxy IIRc. Think of the sheer amount of work that would go into providing the life support for those people - it would have to be built, maintained, monitored, etc. You'd have to regulate the eating, breathing, gravity, shitting, and all other aspects of trillions of people from millions of races. And not just their feces or urine.. the regular garbage they might throw away too. A few novels dealt with that (They mass driver it into the sun, I think.) but it has some fascinating things to say about scope and scale without getting into military sides.

You can also think about the economic side of things. Do they collect any methane that might be collected (or other flammable gases?) do they collect the waste and ship it out as fertilizer?
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Darth Tedious »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Where is it established that quadanium steel was invented for the DS? In the x-wing books its described as being the material used in TIE bomber wing panels, and is even comon enough that one character considers using it to make an engagement ring out of.
Gah, I was sure I recalled reading it somewhere! I seem to be having a bad week...

I'm trying to find where I got that impression from... (I thought I'd read it on the wiki, but apparently not- then again, it could have been deleted since then) Perhaps I mixed it up in my head with that quantum-crystalline shit they had to invent for the SC.

According to Wookiepedia (don't you love it when they're specific with sources) quadanium is a registered trademark within the Empire, which implies they had to invent it at some stage...

Anyhows, I'll retract my statement about R&D costs.

:?: Should we still assume quadanium is more expensive than regular low-carbon steel?
Connor MacLeod wrote:There's supposed to be millions of races in the SW galaxy IIRc. Think of the sheer amount of work that would go into providing the life support for those people - it would have to be built, maintained, monitored, etc. You'd have to regulate the eating, breathing, gravity, shitting, and all other aspects of trillions of people from millions of races. And not just their feces or urine.. the regular garbage they might throw away too. A few novels dealt with that (They mass driver it into the sun, I think.) but it has some fascinating things to say about scope and scale without getting into military sides.

You can also think about the economic side of things. Do they collect any methane that might be collected (or other flammable gases?) do they collect the waste and ship it out as fertilizer?
There really are so many different things which can be considered. It's a little sad that less EU writers never fleshed out more of that side of the Warsverse, instead of retreading the same Jedi/Sith stories...
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Connor MacLeod »

We can't ever know canonically but that applies to a shit ton of things in Star Wars. That won't stop you from speculating or conjecturing or trying to come up with explanations. Sometimes there can just be fun in the speculating.

For example the need to control and maintain that level of sewage and waste (sorting, monitoring, regulating, etc.) would say a great deal about Star Wars robotics and automated systems, since that's the logical system to do it all.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

On an even more trivial scale, and interesting point brought up by Darths and Droids of all people. Looking at the heights of those buildings, they must have some very cunning lift scheduling programs. The same can be applied to starships. Consider: Han, Luke and Chewie were waiting mere moments for a lift to take them to the cell block.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by LaCroix »

I say they compact the shit to neutron-star density and sell it under the trademark Hypermatter(TM).
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Lord Revan »

well I don't know about use but the Death Star novel implied that the DS project was expensive enough that fully hiding it was impossible, meaning that rebels would easily find out that something big and important was happening just not what and where.

then again even with droid and prisoner/slave labor there's other costs besides the raw material like supplies for the crew (both constuction and final), transport of said crew (including specialist from offworld), hightech devices and in another part it's again implied that the empire is willing to throw rather large sums to fix problems that arrise during the construction phase (not infinite but still signifigant sums).
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by PainRack »

Connor MacLeod wrote:There's supposed to be millions of races in the SW galaxy IIRc. Think of the sheer amount of work that would go into providing the life support for those people - it would have to be built, maintained, monitored, etc. You'd have to regulate the eating, breathing, gravity, shitting, and all other aspects of trillions of people from millions of races. And not just their feces or urine.. the regular garbage they might throw away too. A few novels dealt with that (They mass driver it into the sun, I think.) but it has some fascinating things to say about scope and scale without getting into military sides.
Rogue planet. It doesn't deal with sewage , just garbage, but they essentially shoot it out into space. And apparently they hold races there, that a young Anakin skywalker particpates in.


I seem to recall that we had a Coruscant thread in the past that semi-delved into civil engineering issues when we were discussing the population numbers.

To put things in perspective, New York City has 14 sewage plants for 8 million people. Coruscant however is even more complex, as it requires an ecosystem to actually "dump" or move the treated water out of. This even as they use solar panels to shift heat for weather purposes(or more likely, environmental controls), have the use of humidifiers and other equipment, to the extent that the malfunction in the X-wing series causes localised rainy weather......... They're creating an actual ecosystem here over the entire planet.


But then again, they did that for the Death Star, and even engineered the power systems/heat disposal for their hypermatter reactor on top of it so....... yeah...... Amazing on our scale, not so imba on theirs.




However, let's not bring the EU into this. For one, they HAVE staged some stories/settings in here before, for example, during the NJO where refugees/resistance hid amongst such environmental stations. We promptly see how they butchered it. These stations are now part of Palpatine secret plan to kill off anybody on Coruscant!

No. Just no. Unless some civil engineer the likes of Curtis Saxton touches this, leave the EU out of these settings. Otherwise, we get the same old idiotic numbers like billions on Coruscant and shit.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Omeganian »

Someone can't do the math. 1.08*10^15*2*10^9 = over 300 times the mass of Earth.
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Re: How Much Did The Death Star Cost?

Post by Grumman »

Omeganian wrote:Someone can't do the math. 1.08*10^15*2*10^9 = over 300 times the mass of Earth.
It looks like they used tonnes for the Death Star and kilograms for Earth, and that's where the problem was brought in.
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