OP-6 Reasons Why Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie

[mr friendly guy]

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-villain ... h-history/

There's no mistaking it: Star Wars is back and ready to return to the heights it once enjoyed. With J.J. Abrams at the helm of Star Wars: Episode VII, fans are looking forward to new films carrying on the legacy of the Rebellion's heroes. But that's not the only direction to take.

Now that confirmed standalone movies are also in the plans alongside major Episodes, the characters and stories that can be explored are far more numerous. We've already listed the Star Wars spin-offs we'd like to see, but the more we think about it, permanently relegating the Sith or 'Dark Jedi' to the role of villain seems to be making one massive assumption.

At this point, the whole 'Light Side good, Dark Side bad' idea is common knowledge; but that's only according to the Jedi. History, as we know, is written by the victor. We tend to agree with the belief that the Sith were evil-doers and extremists, but it might be worthwhile to actually look at what drove them to that point, and see if a story can't be told placing the Jedi in the role of antagonists.

Allow us to outline 6 Reasons Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie.

The Sith Weren't Always Bad

What should be made clear off the bat is that the Sith didn't just show up like boogeymen one day and start terrorizing the innocent. They were Jedi to begin with - only more radical in their views of the galaxy and what their gifts should be used for. The first Jedi Exiles - the group that would one day found the Sith - were simply one side of a civil dispute within the Jedi Order, known as the Second Great Schism.

Whatever extremes each side pushed the other toward, it should be known that at no point did the Sith huddle around a fire and decide to crush all life in the galaxy; they were conquerors in search of mastery over life itself, not genocidal maniacs. They even developed their own Sith Code, opposing that preached by Jedi. Rather than speaking of existence as it should be, they focused on the way it was. The Code reads:

-Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
-Through passion, I gain strength.
-Through strength, I gain power.
-Through power, I gain victory.
-Through victory, my chains are broken.
-The Force shall free me.

While the Jedi taught their followers that love, anger or passion were forbidden, the Sith embraced the full range of human emotion; passion is what makes people powerful, and free. The original Star Wars movies clearly show that the Skywalkers don't share the belief that love is to be avoided, and it's arguable that most of humanity would relate more to the Sith's view of passion as a good thing.

The first Jedi Exiles' aims to revive dead worlds may not have been something their brethren believed in, and resulted in them being cast out, but it wasn't spawned by malice.

The Jedi Were Hypocrites

Fascist governments throughout history have proven that the denial of....unpopular progress on grounds that it challenges existing beliefs of what's "right" is one of mankind's worst habits: Galileo, for instance, was called a heretic for claiming the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe.

It's no secret that the Jedi oppose anything - anything - to do with the Dark Side, since nothing good ever comes from it. What is less known is that before the Galactic Republic, the galaxy was largely ruled by the Rakata race's 10,000 year Infinite Empire. Like many others, this empire was built on cutting-edge technology (like the first widely-used hyperdrives). And it was all thanks to the Dark Side.

Once the Rakata empire collapsed 25,000 years prior to the films, the technology was up for grabs, with the Corellians among the first to circumvent the Dark Side components of Rakata warp drives and sell the technology wholesale. The result was helpful, so no one batted an eyelash.

Transportation's one thing, but the trademark of the Jedi Order - the lightsaber - is one that could only be crafted by those in tune with the light side of the Force, right? Right. The Rakata called their version 'Forcesabers,' using the Force to channel dark energy into a solid blade. The Jedi, as they did elsewhere, saw the potential made possible through 'ways of the Dark Side,' and adapted it for their own aims.

Sure the technology was used by the Rakata for conquering and domination, but if every advancement that aided warfare was seen as inherently evil, the world would be a very different place. Maybe the Jedi actually meant that 'nothing good comes from the Dark Side... anymore.'

The Jedi Helped Commit Genocide

If it's possible to bring the morality of the Jedi into question, it's in the way they treat their enemies. After the First Great Schism came to an end, and the last twelve 'Dark Jedi' surrendered, public demand for their execution ran high. Ever the merciful diplomats, the Jedi chose to spare the lives of their fallen brethren and their followers.

They then proceeded to strip their former allies of their weapons and armor, boarded them onto unarmed transport ships, and sent them into Unknown Space. It's hard to say what the Jedi intended to happen to the Exiles, but when the helpless prisoners found the race of red-skinned Sith on the planet Korriban, they did what Jedi do: shared their beliefs and technology, and laid the foundations of a new empire.

Old feuds die hard, so once the Sith had emerged as a suitable army for their Dark Jedi leaders - now Sith Lords - the unbelievably named Great Hyperspace War began. The Sith ultimately succumbed to infighting, and the Republic and Jedi were victorious. Clearly, their actions 1,900 years earlier hadn't worked: the Dark Jedi had survived, and now ruled over a previously-unknown race of Force-sensitive humanoids.

Republic Chancellor Pultimo looked upon an enemy that no longer posed a threat, and ordered the Jedi and Republic forces to invade Sith Space and destroy any remains of the empire and its citizens. This purge - known as the Sith Holocaust - ultimately failed, leaving the survivors to take refuge on Dromund Kaas. From here they would rebuild their empire, and not rest until they had their revenge on those who had tried to exterminate them.

The Jedi Defended a Corrupt System

As so many galaxy-wide armed conflicts do, the Clone Wars all started with the passing of a Financial Reform bill. Well, attempted passing. You see, this is the part that gets glossed over in the clearly pro-Jedi films, giving the impressions that the Separatists were simply bad guys.

The truth is: the commercially powerful systems of the galaxy were only after removal of corruption in the Senate, and government deregulation in the name of capitalistic growth. Those wishes could be cast in a greedy or antidemocratic light, but they're also the desires that shaped the creation of the western world. In other words, not inherently evil.

The taxation and corruption of the Senate from top to bottom pushed the larger corporations not to revolt, but introduce new financial reform to protect their interests. Before a vote could take place, the Senator representing the Commonality of trade planets was assassinated by a bribed Senate guard (apparently they weren't kidding about corruption). Those who sent the assassin got their wish, and the vote was cancelled.

Understandably, this was the last straw. The Commonality broke off from the corrupt body and formed the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Political movements are usually bigger than they're made out to be their opponents. so while the films depicted the group as a table full of villainous characters, the Separatist Confederacy was made up of over eight galactic governments, dozens of Republic Senators, and spanned over 10,000 star systems. The Jedi and Republic didn't even formally recognize the group's existence, choosing instead to defend the corrupt government, and rather than address the Separatist concerns, simply wipe them out.

The Jedi Betrayed Their Own Beliefs

Have a look, if you will, at the stated beliefs of the Jedi Code around the time of Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace:

-Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.
-Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others.
-Jedi respect all life, in any form.
-Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy.
-Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training.

Of course, the Force-wielding, telekinetic, mind-controlling monks weren't always so docile. When the Jedi put an end to the New Sith Wars 1,000 years before the films, they had grown to be so militarized that their beliefs were being jeopardized. As recognition of this danger the Ruusan Reformation took place, restructuring the Republic and disbanding the Jedi's army and navy, as well as restricting their influence. This meant no longer sporting armor or military rank, and serving the Senate, not their own hierarchy.

Rather than weakening the galactic government, having the Jedi to defend freedom and serve democracy ushered in the 'Golden Age of the Old Republic.' The films are set 1,000 years later - enough time for the Jedi to have shifted from realizing their religious order should only be used to defend, not lead the Republic to claiming that they knew better.

George Lucas could have at least included a scene where Mace Windu or Yoda debated the idea of instantly becoming generals, betraying their code and undoing legislation that brought a millenium of peace (fun fact: Luke Skywalker later removed the line about "never attacking others").

The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader

Despite the fact that the Sith were not inherently evil, there's no question the Jedi saw them as their enemy (even if they'd helped make them). So when Supreme Chancellor Palpatine was revealed to be Darth Sidious, believing in the quest for mastery over life that the Jedi so vehemently disagreed with, what would any peace-loving religious order do? In short, attempt to arrest or kill him.

The problem here is that Chancellor Palpatine was, without question, the democratically-elected leader of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi had the right to be angry that he had kept his beliefs and religion a secret, and suspicious of what he had planned for the Republic, but…remember that bit in their Jedi Code that said they served the Republic’s government, and that they were not in charge of determining who was fit to lead and who wasn’t?

Anyway you look at it, the Jedi attempted a military coup, wishing to depose the elected leader of a democracy based on a personal vendetta. They had many diplomatic methods of bringing his Sith origins to the attention of the Republic, but instead decided to act without consent. The result: the Jedi were judged by the Republic's leader to once again threaten freedom and exert control over the Senate, and had to be eliminated (poetic justice fans will note the Jedi Purge as a reversal of their genocide against the Sith).

One could argue that Palpatine had manipulated democracy to settle an old score himself, but that means that he knew the Jedi wouldn't hesitate to remove the head of the Senate by force. The bottom line: marching into a Head of State's office with guns drawn after discovering his racial, religious or philosophical background is a hard pill to swallow.

Can someone more versed in Star Wars lore comment on this? The part he tells about the Jedi attempting to overthrow a democratically elected leader was cringeworthy because of parts he tended to ignore. Namely that leader was suspected and is responsible for embroiling the Republic in a war, ie was engaged in treason for his own interests.

[Stark]

A whole bunch of crap that missed the part where all the Jedi are dead? Pretty compelling.

[mr friendly guy]

I was thinking about the earlier bit where my SW knowledge is lacking. Namely about the earlier Jedi and Sith wars where the Jedi commit genocide, and the early proto-Sith "weren't that bad."

[Metahive]

Was that written by Spoderman Fenboi? Some of the arguments look oddly familiar.

[Grumman]

Looking at the first three reasons...

Allow us to outline 6 Reasons Jedi Could Be Villains In a Star Wars Movie.

The Sith Weren't Always Bad

This could be an argument for why a Sith (read: a Force user who embraces the fact that caring whether you succeed makes you more likely to succeed) could be a hero, if they managed to use the Force without the safeguard of detachedness without being corrupted. It doesn't mean that the Jedi would act like villains if someone managed this feat.

The Jedi Were Hypocrites

This appears to be nonsense. Neither hyperdrives nor lightsabers have any inherent link to the Force. Making use of the technologies despite their inventors using the dark side in their designs is no more hypocritical than developing white paint that uses titanium instead of lead compounds.

The Jedi Helped Commit Genocide

Looking at Wookiepedia, the target of the Sith holocaust appears to have been the dark-side artifacts created by the Sith Empire and not the population of the Empire. An analogy would be if an aggressive nation waged nuclear war but was defeated, and the victor's demands included complete nuclear disarmament, including the aggressor's nuclear reactors.

[Scrib]

The Sith Weren't Always Bad

What should be made clear off the bat is that the Sith didn't just show up like boogeymen one day and start terrorizing the innocent. They were Jedi to begin with - only more radical in their views of the galaxy and what their gifts should be used for. The first Jedi Exiles - the group that would one day found the Sith - were simply one side of a civil dispute within the Jedi Order, known as the Second Great Schism.

Whatever extremes each side pushed the other toward, it should be known that at no point did the Sith huddle around a fire and decide to crush all life in the galaxy; they were conquerors in search of mastery over life itself, not genocidal maniacs. They even developed their own Sith Code, opposing that preached by Jedi. Rather than speaking of existence as it should be, they focused on the way it was. The Code reads:

-Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
-Through passion, I gain strength.
-Through strength, I gain power.
-Through power, I gain victory.
-Through victory, my chains are broken.
-The Force shall free me.

While the Jedi taught their followers that love, anger or passion were forbidden, the Sith embraced the full range of human emotion; passion is what makes people powerful, and free. The original Star Wars movies clearly show that the Skywalkers don't share the belief that love is to be avoided, and it's arguable that most of humanity would relate more to the Sith's view of passion as a good thing.

The first Jedi Exiles' aims to revive dead worlds may not have been something their brethren believed in, and resulted in them being cast out, but it wasn't spawned by malice.

Nor did the Jedi try to kill the Sith because they were heretics. The Sith path lead them to try to dominate the world and so the Jedi tried to destroy them

As for passion making you stronger, this is a common complaint thrown at the Old Republic Jedi (no doubt for romantic and emotional reasons) but I would argue that their system worked.

New Republic Jedi are indecisive when it comes to the people they love. Mara Jade runs off to the center of the galaxy and refuses to leave her child in the midst of a war, Luke has to sit out a conflict against a Sith Jacen because he has been tainted after he lost his wife. Said wife died because she wasn't thinking straight when it concerned her son. Hell, their entire method of dealing with the problem was tainted because said Sith Lord was a family member. Jaina nearly falls to the dark side after losing a brother. And those are just off the top of my head.

Not to mention that there's a...dynastic flavor to the New Jedi Order. The heroes are all members of the big clan or friends of them and they probably get more leeway than others.

The Jedi Were Hypocrites

Fascist governments throughout history have proven that the denial of....unpopular progress on grounds that it challenges existing beliefs of what's "right" is one of mankind's worst habits: Galileo, for instance, was called a heretic for claiming the Sun, not the Earth, was the center of the universe.

It's no secret that the Jedi oppose anything - anything - to do with the Dark Side, since nothing good ever comes from it. What is less known is that before the Galactic Republic, the galaxy was largely ruled by the Rakata race's 10,000 year Infinite Empire. Like many others, this empire was built on cutting-edge technology (like the first widely-used hyperdrives). And it was all thanks to the Dark Side.

You mean the Rakatans with the huge slave empire?

Once the Rakata empire collapsed 25,000 years prior to the films, the technology was up for grabs, with the Corellians among the first to circumvent the Dark Side components of Rakata warp drives and sell the technology wholesale. The result was helpful, so no one batted an eyelash.

Transportation's one thing, but the trademark of the Jedi Order - the lightsaber - is one that could only be crafted by those in tune with the light side of the Force, right? Right. The Rakata called their version 'Forcesabers,' using the Force to channel dark energy into a solid blade. The Jedi, as they did elsewhere, saw the potential made possible through 'ways of the Dark Side,' and adapted it for their own aims.

Weapons based on principles the Jedi consider bad are created. The things the Jedi object to are removed. Jedi use weapons. I fail to see the problem.

The Jedi Betrayed Their Own Beliefs

Have a look, if you will, at the stated beliefs of the Jedi Code around the time of Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace:

-Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.
-Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others.
-Jedi respect all life, in any form.
-Jedi serve others rather than ruling over them, for the good of the galaxy.
-Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training.

Of course, the Force-wielding, telekinetic, mind-controlling monks weren't always so docile. When the Jedi put an end to the New Sith Wars 1,000 years before the films, they had grown to be so militarized that their beliefs were being jeopardized. As recognition of this danger the Ruusan Reformation took place, restructuring the Republic and disbanding the Jedi's army and navy, as well as restricting their influence. This meant no longer sporting armor or military rank, and serving the Senate, not their own hierarchy.

Where does it say that Jedi can never attack others? They don't murder people randomly but they will defend themselves. As for the Jedi being militarized, welcome to a universe more complex than a three year old's. The Sith were a huge threat that sought only to enslave the galaxy. How is it more respectful to let them run roughshod over everyone? They protected the people of the galaxy.

If the Jedi ruled at the time it was because it was needed, and I don't think that you can assume that the injunction against ruling came before and not after (Did they?? I vaguely remember something from Karpyshyn's work about Jedi Chancellors but am not sure)

Rather than weakening the galactic government, having the Jedi to defend freedom and serve democracy ushered in the 'Golden Age of the Old Republic.' The films are set 1,000 years later - enough time for the Jedi to have shifted from realizing their religious order should only be used to defend, not lead the Republic to claiming that they knew better.

The Republic never faced the same type of threat iirc.

The Jedi Led a Coup Against an Elected Leader

Well, he was elected at first...

Despite the fact that the Sith were not inherently evil, there's no question the Jedi saw them as their enemy (even if they'd helped make them). So when Supreme Chancellor Palpatine was revealed to be Darth Sidious, believing in the quest for mastery over life that the Jedi so vehemently disagreed with, what would any peace-loving religious order do? In short, attempt to arrest or kill him.

What is this idiocy? Palpatine is not only a Sith, who at this point are purely motivated by some weird sociopathic/Nietzschean ideology, he's SIDIOUS. The Sith Lord that has orchestrated this entire war. That has drained the number of Jedis protecting the Republic. That has killed millions and allowed him to amass extra legal powers.

Jedi probably have more loyalty to the Republic than any one leader as well. Palpatine with emergency powers might have been a temporary evil, Sith!Palpatine was a mortal threat to democracy.

The problem here is that Chancellor Palpatine was, without question, the democratically-elected leader of the Galactic Republic.

Nope, not for years. He's at best a chosen autocrat. With Sith powers...

The Jedi had the right to be angry that he had kept his beliefs and religion a secret, and suspicious of what he had planned for the Republic, but…remember that bit in their Jedi Code that said they served the Republic’s government, and that they were not in charge of determining who was fit to lead and who wasn’t?

If the Jedi cannot rule then neither can the Sith. It's not only a toxic ideology, it's treason. Palpatine was a traitor. You cannot play both sides of the war.

Anyway you look at it, the Jedi attempted a military coup, wishing to depose the elected leader of a democracy based on a personal vendetta.

Wrong again.

They had many diplomatic methods of bringing his Sith origins to the attention of the Republic, but instead decided to act without consent.

Which is idiotic. You really want to get into a he-said, she-said match with an autocratic Sith Lord that has almost complete power and a ton of Senators under his thumb?

One could argue that Palpatine had manipulated democracy to settle an old score himself, but that means that he knew the Jedi wouldn't hesitate to remove the head of the Senate by force. The bottom line: marching into a Head of State's office with guns drawn after discovering his racial, religious or philosophical background is a hard pill to swallow.

[/quote]
Completely ignores the actions of the man. Completely ignores that the philosophy of the Sith is completely, by it's own nature, opposed to democracy. Completely ignores that, with the Chancellor's powers, they need him in hand before they can make any move at all.

[PainRack]

The whole "defend a corrupt system" is patently absurd. Not because the Jedi did defend a corrupt republic but for the reasons. Here's a hint. The Trade Federation was monopolising trade to entire planets, monopolising hyperspace trade routes and violating freedom of navigation principles we take for granted nowadays. How was it bad to tax the corporation so as to reduce their power/influence and bring about government benefits?(of course, in the corrupt nature of Republic business, this probably means enriching some other beneficiary or Senator)

The funny thing is, the ONLY portion that was plausibly valid is the last, the attempted "coup" against Palpatine.

We discussed it before on this forum. The Jedi did attempt to pull a coup, for good reasons, but their actions could be seen as treasonous. We don't discount Musharaff actions as a coup even if he did it for good reasons, eh? It was justified but that's more a problem of the Republic, because they had no other system to balance executive power. The Judical system, which had the Jedi to support them was by this time entirely circuvemented

[Scrib]

It was technically a "coup" but only because there was little legal recourse. In fact, being mad about it requires that you buy his previous argument that the Sith were simply philosophical rivals to the Jedi and could have been good, which is idiotic.

Oh, and on the list of Jedi doing crazy things for love I forgot some: Anakin Skywalker being trained because of Obi-Wan's sentiment for Qui-Gon, and said Anakin cutting off the hand of a fucking Jedi Master to save someone responsible for millions of deaths and the weakening of the republic for the sake of his wife.

[Scrib]

Late Edit: Put it this way: It was far less ambiguous than what the Jedi do in Fate of the Jedi.

[The Disintegrator]

It's an interesting read, but I think we're looking at this in the wrong way. We can say Jedi good, Sith bad, but only because we're viewing this from the perspective of an outside audience that has access to all the facts. The average citizen of the galaxy far, far away likely doesn't have all this. What they have is much more limited information and a significant amount of Imperial propaganda for as long as many of them can remember. Prior to Order 66, knowledge of the Jedi largely consisted of stories and myths. Being a fairly secretive and mysterious order it's not like the average person really knew a whole lot about them or their values. And then after Order 66 the last they heard of the Jedi was that they attempted a coup on their democratically elected leader. Given that they weren't really that well understood, and they're believed to have attempted a coup on Republic leadership it'd be understandable for the citizens of the galaxy to be a bit mistrustful of the Jedi.

Yes it can be argued that Palpatine was elected based on a lot of manipulation, but it's not as if everyone in universe knows that. And yes we can argue that the Jedi were right to try and depose him given the circumstances, but the circumstances weren't really public knowledge. The other points made in the article while not as strong could feasibly be spun by Imperial propaganda in a manner believable to those who don't know anything else. The whole idea of a villain is extremely dependent on perspective, and from the in universe perspective it's perfectly reasonable for some people to consider the Jedi to be villains. And there's a lot of writing potential there. They could deal with continued persecution of the Jedi, a conspiracy against the Jedi within the New Republic, or they could even feature a main character that goes off to fight the Jedi thinking that he/she is doing the right thing. Me, I think it'd greatly improve the new continuity if they portrayed the Sith as having better reasons than just being evil or greedy. I always felt that Palpatine was pretty two dimensional, so it'd be nice to see a big bad that has some character depth.

[Ralin]

Me, I think it'd greatly improve the new continuity if they portrayed the Sith as having better reasons than just being evil or greedy. I always felt that Palpatine was pretty two dimensional, so it'd be nice to see a big bad that has some character depth.

Meh, Star Wars is about big over the top stories painted in broad strokes. I don't mind EU novels or whatever telling stories that are a little more nuanced or shades of grey or whatever, but if they try to do that in the movies I think it'll end up being like Spalko in Indy IV. i.e., not necessarily a bad character, but compare her to all the other Indy villains and one of these things does not fit.

[Lord Revan]

also there's the thing that it would be thematically wrong as Star Wars was based story format from the 1930s in you had fairly 2 dimensional vilains

[G_Meadow]

The whole "defend a corrupt system" is patently absurd. Not because the Jedi did defend a corrupt republic but for the reasons. Here's a hint. The Trade Federation was monopolising trade to entire planets, monopolising hyperspace trade routes and violating freedom of navigation principles we take for granted nowadays. How was it bad to tax the corporation so as to reduce their power/influence and bring about government benefits?(of course, in the corrupt nature of Republic business, this probably means enriching some other beneficiary or Senator)

A few observations. You are totally correct about what the Trade Federation was doing. But look at TPM from an external galactic presence. The Trade Federation blockaded Naboo for some time before the Jedi sent to negotiate (Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn) arrive - then attempt to murder them. Right afterward, the TF launched a completely illegal military invasion of a peaceful planet, herded its people into concentration camps, and the Republic and Jedi Order have effective done nothing.

Politically, the Senate is unable to act, the Nemoidian senator ties them all up, and they have to kick out the Supreme Chancellor first - which takes more time. The Jedi Order is well aware by now what the TF did, yet they don't provide any assistance to Obi-Wan or Qui-Gonn (no mass Jedi invasions like in AOTC.)

It takes the native forces of Naboo (Gungans and Humans alike) plus those two previous Jedi to defeat the Trade Federation. It is literally stated in Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Starships and Technology in their Battle of Naboo entry at the end, that many systems started feeling that they could not rely on the Republic for protection.

And yes, the Techno Union, Corporate Alliance, Trade Federation and the like did form a major part of the CIS armies in the Clone Wars. However, the first actual evidence we find of them being involved in the CIS is when Count Dooku is revealed to be making the deals with them in Episode 2 on Geonosis, and the clone trooper army invades barely hours later.

...At that point, it's war between the CIS and the Old Republic, so complaining about the presence of the moneyed mercantile types is too late for the majority of people who would otherwise object. So it's a stretch in my mind that the Jedi would be villains reasoning from there - but it's pretty clear they are blindly supporting a government there are significant and potentially fatal flaws in.

[Scrib]

The alternative is either to cause a rift during wartime and perhaps collapse the entire system or take over or at least become a political entity and try to fix the system. And we know why Jedi don't like that one. But even putting aside their scruples , they'd probably lose anyway. which they no doubt know.

[Simon_Jester]

The Jedi can rightly be accused of defending a corrupt system- but what were they defending it against? Outside threats, really. Making sure the Trade Federation was kept under control by sound economic policy was outside the Jedi jurisdiction; they're warrior-monks, not economists. The Jedi did a competent job of their actual duties during the waning years of the Old Republic; they just weren't able to deal with:

1) A rotten political and economic system
2) A deliberate plot to manipulate that system from within, by a man who could hide from their Force powers
3) The hidden resources of that plot (the CIS, the clonetroopers, etc.)

When those problems came to a head, the Jedi did the best they could against the threat profile they were used to: the military threat of the CIS and its dark-Jedi leaders. They were neither prepared by their traditions nor expected by the Republic's constitution to do anything about its internal problems. When they realized how big those problems were (Sith Lord in charge actively keeping the war going by playing both sides against each other), the only thing they could possibly do to protect the galaxy was a coup attempt.

Which shows just how little constitutional role they had in keeping the internal mechanisms of the Republic under control. They couldn't fix even the most blatant fault in the system without having to go entirely outside the established rules.

Nor did the Jedi try to kill the Sith because they were heretics. The Sith path lead them to try to dominate the world and so the Jedi tried to destroy them

As for passion making you stronger, this is a common complaint thrown at the Old Republic Jedi (no doubt for romantic and emotional reasons) but I would argue that their system worked.

New Republic Jedi are indecisive when it comes to the people they love. Mara Jade runs off to the center of the galaxy and refuses to leave her child in the midst of a war, Luke has to sit out a conflict against a Sith Jacen because he has been tainted after he lost his wife. Said wife died because she wasn't thinking straight when it concerned her son. Hell, their entire method of dealing with the problem was tainted because said Sith Lord was a family member. Jaina nearly falls to the dark side after losing a brother. And those are just off the top of my head.

The real challenge for the Jedi is to find a balance that allows their members to be human, and to be serious active participants in galactic civilization... but doesn't cause them to be irrational or irresponsible in the way they deal with crises.

They need regular monitoring of their own habits: no running off to train with mysterious dark lords, coming back a year later 'changed' and having nobody wonder what the hell is going on. Both old and new Jedi were bad at this. They need schooling in some kind of professional ethics (the old Jedi were pretty good at this, the new ones not so much).

Not to mention that there's a...dynastic flavor to the New Jedi Order. The heroes are all members of the big clan or friends of them and they probably get more leeway than others.

Of course, the Force being inheritable adds a whole new complex of reasons to control and limit family attachments: it limits the number of Force-empowered people in the galaxy, and the number of Force-empowered 'dynasties' like the Skywalkers. That part may be the intentional, original reason for the rule.

[Scrib]

Nor did the Jedi try to kill the Sith because they were heretics. The Sith path lead them to try to dominate the world and so the Jedi tried to destroy them

As for passion making you stronger, this is a common complaint thrown at the Old Republic Jedi (no doubt for romantic and emotional reasons) but I would argue that their system worked.

New Republic Jedi are indecisive when it comes to the people they love. Mara Jade runs off to the center of the galaxy and refuses to leave her child in the midst of a war, Luke has to sit out a conflict against a Sith Jacen because he has been tainted after he lost his wife. Said wife died because she wasn't thinking straight when it concerned her son. Hell, their entire method of dealing with the problem was tainted because said Sith Lord was a family member. Jaina nearly falls to the dark side after losing a brother. And those are just off the top of my head.

The real challenge for the Jedi is to find a balance that allows their members to be human, and to be serious active participants in galactic civilization... but doesn't cause them to be irrational or irresponsible in the way they deal with crises.

They need regular monitoring of their own habits: no running off to train with mysterious dark lords, coming back a year later 'changed' and having nobody wonder what the hell is going on. Both old and new Jedi were bad at this. They need schooling in some kind of professional ethics (the old Jedi were pretty good at this, the new ones not so much).

I don't know. Once you let the cat out of the bag you're going to find it hard to put it back in. I wouldn't fuck with the system if I was an OR Jedi. There's little to gain really.

Their failure doesn't seem like one that could have been prevented by greater freedom. It was simply the result of having an enemy that had picked the best strategy for fighting a body like the Republic. It's much easier to start fires in an organization so large, especially if people assume that you don't exist.

[Saxtonite]

If the Jedi ruled at the time it was because it was needed, and I don't think that you can assume that the injunction against ruling came before and not after (Did they?? I vaguely remember something from Karpyshyn's work about Jedi Chancellors but am not sure)

There were during the time before the Ruusan Reformations I believe. So there was a historical and legal precedent for the Jedi to take over the Republic for a period of time to keep it from completely collapsing.

If the Jedi ruled at the time it was because it was needed, and I don't think that you can assume that the injunction against ruling came before and not after (Did they?? I vaguely remember something from Karpyshyn's work about Jedi Chancellors but am not sure)

There were during the time before the Ruusan Reformations I believe. So there was a historical and legal precedent for the Jedi to take over the Republic for a period of time to keep it from completely collapsing.

When they realized how big those problems were (Sith Lord in charge actively keeping the war going by playing both sides against each other), the only thing they could possibly do to protect the galaxy was a coup attempt.

Which shows just how little constitutional role they had in keeping the internal mechanisms of the Republic under control. They couldn't fix even the most blatant fault in the system without having to go entirely outside the established rules.

The Jedi and Republic Intelligence suspected the Sith Lord was someone in Palpatine's high circle or one of his advisors since around the time of the Battle of Geonosis. They didn't think Palpatine was the Sith Lord as "he already ran the galaxy" or something like that. And the Jedi HAVE served as Chancellors before. Perhaps the post-ruusan reformation fixed things so that Jedi no longer had that power.