Dooku: a well-intentioned man who fell from grace?

[Komodo9Joe]

"Even though I knew that the Senate was corrupt, the Council was fallible, and Jedi training methods far from perfect, I remained with the Jedi Order for twelve years after Galidraan. Why? Because I still believed that I could accomplish some good as a Jedi. I thought I could bring about some positive changes, right certain wrongs, and do better than maintain the status quo. In short, I was an utter fool."
-Count Dooku

Please use this thread to share your thoughts on the character of Dooku. Was he a victim of Darth Sidious who twisted his good will into something nefarious? Could Dooku have been redeemed or did he lack a saving grace? Or was Dooku just an arrogant aristocrat who was listening to his own ambitions and not to a higher calling? Please discuss.

[Knife]

Dooku was a sociopath who used his position and strengths for Dooku. Nothing more, nothing less. The ROTS novelization pretty much went into his thought process during the fight against Obi and Anakin. There were two types of beings, ones who could further Dooku's needs, and the others who didn't matter. If he couldn't be the top dog on a Jedi council, he was more than content to be top dog on a Sith council.

[Tiriol]

Dooku was a sociopath who used his position and strengths for Dooku. Nothing more, nothing less. The ROTS novelization pretty much went into his thought process during the fight against Obi and Anakin. There were two types of beings, ones who could further Dooku's needs, and the others who didn't matter. If he couldn't be the top dog on a Jedi council, he was more than content to be top dog on a Sith council.

I always thought that Dooku the sociopath was something the dark side made of him because he allowed it to happen. There were clear tendencies that he was proud and even little arrogant before - Essential guide to the Force seem to imply it - but when he became a Sith, his sociopathic leanings became dominant and as he allowed the dark side to consume him, that's what was left. The dark side twists people from the inside after all.

[NecronLord]

Dooku had retired to his family estate, the planetary system of Serenno. Assuming his hereditary title as its Count made him one of the wealthiest beings in the galaxy. Amid the unabashed corruption endemic to the Republic, his immense wealth could have bought the allegiance of any given number of Senators; he could, perhaps, have bought control of the Republic itself.

But a man of such heritage, such principle, could never stoop to be lord of a garbage heap, chief of a horde of scavengers squabbling over scraps; the Republic, to him, was nothing more than this.

Instead, he used all the great power of his family fortune-and the vastly greater power of his unquestioned integrity-to begin the cleansing of the galaxy from the fester of this so-called democracy.

He is the icon of the Separatist movement, its public face. He is to the Confederacy of Independent Systems what Palpatine is to the Republic: the living symbol of the justice of its cause.

This is the public story.

This is the story that even Dooku, in his weaker moments, almost believes.

The truth is more complicated.

Dooku is ... different.

He doesn't remember quite when he discovered this; it may have been when he was a young Padawan, betrayed by another learner who had claimed to be his friend. Lorian Nod had said it to his face: "You don't know what friendship is."

And he didn't.

He had been angry, certainly; furious that his reputation had been put at risk. And he had been angry at himself, for his error in judgment: trusting as an ally one who was in fact an enemy. The most astonishing part of the whole affair had been that even after turning on him before the Jedi, the other boy had expected him to participate in a lie, in the name of their "friendship."

It had been all so preposterous that he hadn't known how to reply-In fact, he has never been entirely sure what beings mean when they speak of friendship. Love, hate, joy, anger-even when he can feel the energy of these emotions in others, they translate in his perception to other kinds of feelings. The kinds that make sense.

Jealousy he understands, and possessiveness: he is fierce when any being encroaches on what is rightfully his.

Intolerance, at the intractability of the universe, and at the undisciplined lives of its inhabitants: this is his normal state.

Spite is a recreation: he takes considerable pleasure from the suffering of his enemies.

Pride is a virtue in an aristocrat, and indignation his inalienable right: when any dare to impugn his integrity, his honor, or his rightful place atop the natural hierarchy of authority.

And moral outrage makes perfect sense to him: when the incorrigibly untidy affairs of ordinary beings refuse to conform to |the plainly obvious structure of How Society Ought To Be.

He is entirely incapable of caring what any given creature might feel for him. He cares only what that creature might do for him. Or to him.

Very possibly, he is what he is because other beings just aren't very . . . interesting.

Or even, in a sense, entirely real.

For Dooku, other beings are mostly abstractions, simple schematic sketches who fall into two essential categories. The first category is Assets: beings who can be used to serve his various interests. Such as-for most of his life, and to some extent even now-the Jedi, particularly Mace Windu and Yoda, both of whom had regarded him as their friend for so long that it had effectively blinded them to the truth of his activities. And of course-for now-the Trade Federation, and the InterGalactic Banking Clan, the Techno Union, the Corporate Alliance, and the weapon lords of Geonosis. And even the common rabble of the galaxy, who exist largely to provide an audience of sufficient size to do justice to his grandeur.

The other category is Threats. In this second set, he numbers every sentient being he cannot include in the first.

There is no third category.

Someday there may be not even a second; being considered a Threat by Count Dooku is a death sentence. A death sentence he plans to pronounce, for example, on his current allies: the heads of the aforementioned Trade Federation, InterGalactic Banking Clan, Techno Union, and Corporate Alliance, and Geonosian weaponeers.

I think that mostly speaks for itself in confirmation of the Sociopathy notion, explicitly outlining that he realized even when he was a padawan that he was incapable of normal human relationships.

[Darksider]

That's a definite condemnation of the Jedi Order right there, if they let someone get as high within their ranks as Dooku without realizing he was a goddamn sociopath.

[Knife]

That's a definite condemnation of the Jedi Order right there, if they let someone get as high within their ranks as Dooku without realizing he was a goddamn sociopath.

Depending on your point of view, it might have been seen as a up side, in that there were no real worries of attachment for him.

[Darksider]

Compassion is supposed to be a Jedi virtue. A sociopath cannot by nature have compassion or empathy for other beings. If the Jedi Order thought being a sociopath was a plus then its just another indication of how fucked up the order had become.

[Eleas]

I think it's pretty clear that by the time of the OT, compassion had lost its place as one of the top virtues of the order. A proper Jedi master was instead supposed to be detached, and we could see it all the time in the slightly awkward, hobbled way they'd approach emotional issues.

[Scrib]

That's a definite condemnation of the Jedi Order right there, if they let someone get as high within their ranks as Dooku without realizing he was a goddamn sociopath.

Funny thing about sociopaths ? They're good at lying. Maybe they should have picked him up when he was young, but the older he got and the more skilled he got with The Force the less likely it would be that anyone would pick through his mind.

Also, it's not really that strange that a sociopath would be for a cause when it suited him, or have what seem like friends when it's to his benefit. He'd drop them, sure, but it's not like he's just a droid with no ability to connect with others.

Compassion is supposed to be a Jedi virtue. A sociopath cannot by nature have compassion or empathy for other beings. If the Jedi Order thought being a sociopath was a plus then its just another indication of how fucked up the order had become.

Not sure that's the case. Sociopaths don't have the visceral sense of empathy, but iirc they're good at cognitive empathy. This is probably what makes them good manipulators. Dooku totally gets why people act how they do, he probably just doesn't care. The question is how much this lack of compassion would hinder him when he runs into situations where he needs empathy...I don't know. I think he could maintain a reasonable facsimile of care.

[Ahriman238]

My understanding of his character up to the Labyrinth of Evil/ROTS novelization was that Dooku was far too prideful to be a Jedi, or a kingmaker within the structure of the Republic, but was also really good at rationalizing his actions to himself and others.