Some truths revealed by GL in AOTC

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Re: Some truths revealed by GL in AOTC

Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

Stravo wrote:I finished watching AOTC with director's commentary and Gl firmly states two things that immediately jumped out at me.

1) Stormtroopers ARE the clone troopers. FINALLY this debate can be put to rest. Staright from the man's mouth. To those interested he says this TWICE, once during the Kamino scene when discussing his creation of the Boba Fett character and his back story. And again during the final battle sequence when he was worried whether people would get that the clone troopers are meant to be the future stormtroopers (Apparently a worry that he was right about considering some of the raging debates on the subject)

Where on the DVD does he say this?
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Re: Some truths revealed by GL in AOTC

Post by Pcm979 »

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:
Stravo wrote:I finished watching AOTC with director's commentary and Gl firmly states two things that immediately jumped out at me.

1) Stormtroopers ARE the clone troopers. FINALLY this debate can be put to rest. Staright from the man's mouth. To those interested he says this TWICE, once during the Kamino scene when discussing his creation of the Boba Fett character and his back story. And again during the final battle sequence when he was worried whether people would get that the clone troopers are meant to be the future stormtroopers (Apparently a worry that he was right about considering some of the raging debates on the subject)

Where on the DVD does he say this?
Stravo wrote:once during the Kamino scene when discussing his creation of the Boba Fett character and his back story. And again during the final battle sequence when he was worried whether people would get that the clone troopers are meant to be the future stormtroopers
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Post by vakundok »

neoolong wrote:Twin brothers? :D
I am wondering whether how Solo and Luke will be the same height when Leia noticed promptly that Luke was quite short. :evil:
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Post by Dooey Jo »

Why was this thread resurrected? I was planning on starting a new thread on the subject, but I'll just post my thoughts here.

I watched the audio commentary on the dvd yesterday and I got rather scared when they came to the part where Jango escapes from Obi-Wan. Jango hits his head on the door on Slave-1 and Lucas says that that was intentional. The stormtroopers hits doors throughout the OT and since they are actually Jango's clones Lucas thought it would be funny if they would have his "walking into doors"-trait.

Yep, I think it's safe to say that GL has planned to fuck up the OT in some very special way; he WILL make all stormtroopers look like they're all clones and he WILL fuck up continuity with the EU even more. And who knows, maybe he will change the text that rolls by in the opening of ANH to, instead of "The DEATH STAR has the power to destroy an entire planet", say something like "The DEATH STAR has the abilty to employ Dark Star's theory to make an entire planet destroy itself". He will probably also have some imperial officer (maybe Tarkin, or the Emperor) confirm that the Empire only has a thousand ships, and he probably will take away the scene were a Star Destroyer shoots asteroids in ESB. :evil: :evil: :evil:

No, I'm just very, very angry at GL for fucking up his own movies, so those last things probably aren't going to happen.
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Post by hvb »

Sorry for ressurrecting this dusty thread, but I saw a link to it and ...

I just read through this stuff (the first 4 plus last page worth of it anyway), and a few things seem to have slipped the discussion if I am not skimming too fast here, so a few comments. 8)
Stravo wrote: I finished watching AOTC with director's commentary and Gl firmly states two things that immediately jumped out at me.
...
Stormtroopers ARE the clone troopers.
It seems clear from the statement of GL that all clonetroopers/stormies where clones of Jango Fett before his dead.

However the Kamino require new gene patterns according to AOTC dialogue (why they cannot cryogenically store them may have to due with *plot device* :roll: , but it is there and canon)

So after Jango is killed, they will have to find a new gene source! :idea:
(It appears that no-one caught on to that in this discussion.)


It would seem from the starwars.com quoted height of exactly 1.83m that the stormtrooper gene-parents are chosen to fit the gear that is worn by the existing clonetroopers (likely they have to fit in the other dimentions too).
This assumes that the Temuera Morrison is 1.83m tall, else either GL or starwars.com screwed up, and we know who will get the shorter straw there ... either he and the stormies are all 1.83m or they have varying sizes, within a range that still allow for easy fit of standardized gear.

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/image. ... lones2.jpg
This article from 1981 about stormtroopers says that:
the world of star wars wrote: ... A cloned man is one of a group of genetically identical humans, ...
now this does not require all post-Jango clones to be from the same parent gene-set, just that a "group" is created from each parent set.
Thus it is possible that any two stormtroopers are not the clones of the same gene-set, and could therefore differ significantly in all but height, bulk and general high level of physical fitness. Assigning "non-identicals" to squads would facilitate both a more versatile fighting unit, and reduce confusion of identity between squadmates. (doesn't matter as much that you are a clone if your siblings are serving in other platoons, companies ... )

Post-Palpatine the scenario of no direct link between producers of (and recruitment of gene templates for) his own, special, troopers on the one side, and the conventional military structure on the other, goes a long way to explain why the Emperial Remnant runs into manpower problems and start using recruits to fill their stormtrooper armor, and why new solutions to the cloning problem had to be embraced by Thrawn, as a stopgap at least.

The cloning technique used before the return of Thrawn in itself is not too different from that seen in AOTC, so could be a variant over the same, the problem is the tapestudy until adulthood/"braintapeing".

The discovery of the utility of the Ysalamiri in cloning has likely been kept a secret of the emperor, Thrawn and a very few others; so until Thrawn returns it would not have been implimented, due to simple ignorance, and before the death of Palpatine, the use of it could have spilled too many beans to the producers of Palpys clone army about the nature of the force, in his opinion, and was unnessecary anyway: next years clones had already been ordered a decade ago ...

note also that Thrawns own clone was only force-grown at a "normal" 2:1 rate, even though he was surrounded by Ysalamiri, so Thrawn did not trust the new-fangled one-week shake-and-bake cloning technique where his own succession was concerned :wink: , likely it makes the clones too unstable for independent command, so Ysalamiri-growns are likely only good as a stopgap measure.

The "braintapeing" however does present a serious problem that I don't see a way to wiggle out from under, unless you assume that the technique was always there, but is far less accurate/more inflexible (though maybe cheaper) then true experience, and Palpy would likely want the best skills for his most dedicated troops. :?:

This interpretation should plug most of the holes in the dike that GL and EU have "conspired" to make on the issue, though I by no means claim it to be a perfect solution. :D
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Re: Some truths revealed by GL in AOTC

Post by 2000AD »

Crikey! Talk about thread ressurection. little nitpick
Ender wrote:quote:
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Originally posted by Captain Lennox:
Actually, we see Kanos, Jax, and Kanos' partner I believe and it seems Kanos and his partner are actually normal humans, formely being Stormtroopers. Great job overriding all the EU George.
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Nope, Kanos is the only one we ever saw sans helmet. They could be clones, but I doubt it, see above
In Crmson Empire you see Kanos AND Carnor Jax "sans helmet" as at the end Kanos removes Jax's helmet after killing him.

EDIT- We also see that olg trainer guy, but i don't know if he can be counted.
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