Deleted Scenes Canon?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-11 01:13am

Unsure if it is or not, or if it makes any real difference to any arguments but its something i have to know. some of the AOTC deleted scenes seemed rather important.

Wonder if this applies elsewhere as well...

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-04-11 01:23am

IMHO no, deleted scenes aren't canon. They were, after all, cut from the movie for a reason.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-04-11 02:40am

Interesting question.
If we know the reason of the cut we can still use other parts of the deleted scene as canon, I think.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-11 02:43am

That's what the deleted scenes commentary is for.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-11 02:58am

There are soe interesting things about the Jedi Starfighter, and Im sure that they don't contradict anything that actually occurs in the film. But what if Ep III premieres, and something awe inspiring, like a BDZ or the after effects of said operation, shows up and suddeny SW people would like to claim it canon while ST people would go against it?

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-04-11 03:07am

Well, I think the rest of a deleted scene (not the reason of the cut) is above official level, since in Gl'S vision it looked like that. So it is canon. Even if it hurts ST fans. This is my opinion.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-11 03:10am

what sort of Official Star Wars type people would I have to ask about this sort of issue?

D.Turtle · Post by **D.Turtle** » 2003-04-11 03:15am

If a deleted scene is in a novel, then it is canon.

If it isn't in the novel: I still think that it should be considered canon.

The scenes were usually just taken out because the movie was too long.

Also: For example in Episode 1, some of the deleted scenes (well, at least some of the deleted scenes of the Pod race) were included on the DVD. I mean that they were part of the movie on the DVD - so when you simply watched the DVD the scenes were included.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2003-04-11 03:17am

I think deleted scenes should count when they don't interfere with the final cut of the movie. IE, If a there is a cool space battle scene showcasing 200 gigaton turbolaser effects but it was cut from the final edit for timing but it was not replaced by anything else, then it should count as canon since it does not interfere.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-04-11 03:19am

Darth Fanboy wrote:what sort of Official Star Wars type people would I have to ask about this sort of issue?

The Jedi Council of the official site.
http://www.starwars.com/community/askjc/
Steve Sansweet would probably be the best choice, but the odds of you question getting answered are quite small.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-04-11 03:42am

Well I sent a message, hoping for an attempt.

funfunfunfunfun

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-04-11 10:55am

Sir Sirius wrote:IMHO no, deleted scenes aren't canon. They were, after all, cut from the movie for a reason.

Ah, but most deleted scenes were cut to just make the movie progress faster and not slow the tempo of the movie. aren't the deleted scenes still in the novelisation?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-04-11 11:51am

Death from the Sea wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:IMHO no, deleted scenes aren't canon. They were, after all, cut from the movie for a reason.
Ah, but most deleted scenes were cut to just make the movie progress faster and not slow the tempo of the movie. aren't the deleted scenes still in the novelisation?

The only deleted scenes that I remeber bing in the novel have to do with Anakin and Padme's relationship. There's more talking while they pack (on of the handmaidens laughs at Anakin's "overly critical" rant). The stuff when they visit Padme's home is in the book. There's even a little more where her family is pushing her a little more to settle down and have a family which helps provide a little more motivation for why she'd fall for Anakin so quickly.

Other than that I don't remember any of the rest making it into the book.

I do wish they had filmed and included on the DVD the rest of Anakin's slaughter of the Sandpeople. He was dropping huge boulders on groups of them with the Force. It really would have shown that he lost it and how powerful he was.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-04-11 12:06pm

I would probably consider a deleted scene to be "official" rather than "canon", unless the same events also occur in the novelization (which is already canon), in which case the deleted scene gains authenticity from the novelization.

Darth Balls · Post by **Darth Balls** » 2003-04-11 05:54pm

The deleted scenes in episode 2 were in the novelization. So they're cannon.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-04-11 07:25pm

They were, after all, cut from the movie for a reason.

That reason rarely being because Lucas didn't feel that the scenes didn't fit his vision. Two scenes, actually, in AOTC - one that took place in a Jedi Starfighter hangar, with Windu and Obi-wan, and another that took place in a plaza hallway with Winu and Yoda - were condensed down into one single scene, simply because both scenes dealt with similar subject matter.

While it shouldn't be considered canon that the events in the deleted scenes happened, the rest of the information that the scenes showed - such as the design and layout of the Jedi Starfighter hangar, for instance - should be considered canon, in my opinion.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2003-04-11 10:11pm

Deleted scenes that were never published should probably be disregarded, though.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-04-11 10:43pm

Unless it is in a secondary scource (IE the novel or in a EU bok) I'd say it didn't happen.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-04-11 11:46pm

Just a side question. I take it this can be applied to other scifi as well provided the canon policy doesn't forbid it?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-04-11 11:51pm

Alyeska wrote:Just a side question. I take it this can be applied to other scifi as well provided the canon policy doesn't forbid it?

I guess. But in this case many are in the novel, so it is reinforced by that.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-04-12 04:33pm

I'd consider deleted scenes just barely sub-canon.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-04-12 10:42pm

Deleted scenes that were never published should probably be disregarded, though.

I partially disagree. They should, at the very least, be placed at the same level as "official".

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-04-13 03:23am

SPOOFE wrote:
Deleted scenes that were never published should probably be disregarded, though.
I partially disagree. They should, at the very least, be placed at the same level as "official".

No, I'd say if they were never published, they shouldn't be considered official. Note that this does not cover the deleted scenes which were distributed with the EI and EII DVDs. The deleted scenes which are officially released should be included in at least some level of officiality/canonicity.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-04-13 05:20am

No, I'd say if they were never published, they shouldn't be considered official.

And again, I must disagree, with the reasoning that the only thing that makes canon special is the fact that it came straight from George Lucas... ie- it's HIS vision. HOWEVER, the fact that he considered those scenes indicates that he originally considered those scenes a part of his vision, as well... and outside of a specific contradiction elsewhere in the canon, there's no reason to believe that he still doesn't consider those aspects of his universe to be part of his vision. As has been mentioned above, most often a scene is cut not because the director disagreed with the subject matter, but because it bogged down the pace of the overall movie.

I think the biggest scene in contention here is the infamous "Biggs scene" from ANH, which shows Luke and Biggs having conversation on Tatooine. In my opinion, since there is no information anywhere else that indicates that those scenes didn't happen, they should be included in the timeline of the official Star Wars universe... that is, it should be accepted that those scenes did, in fact, happen, even if we didn't get to see them.

EDIT: Yes, this would mean that I would consider storyboards, production sketches, and rough drafts of a script to have some official standing, as well. Subservient to canon, of course, but I would call it foolish to exclude evidence just because it was never really flushed out all that much.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2003-04-15 03:26am

The Biggs scene was included in the novel, and so is canon anyway.

By your rationale Kane, Annikin and Deak Starkiller (characters from the first draft of the Star Wars script) are official parts of the Star Wars saga, and I'm sorry, but they just ain't.

Also, what about multiple takes? They can't ALL have happened.