Droids: exploited?

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-02 04:03am

I was reading NJO: Jedi Eclipse the other day and one passage struck me as rather interesting.

It's the part to do with the 'droid rebellion' started by Baffle and other droids on Ruan, here's a part of it:

"…droids throughout the galaxy will stand up for their rights."… "I am merely part of a greater whole," Baffle said, without effect. "It is my duty to do all I can for my comrades." p. 283

Also, in Hero's Trial Threepio wonders about the implications of death. I don't have any quotes with me, but in short Threepio tells Han of a desire to stay 'alive'.

What's going on here? Just how 'sentient' are droids? I find it extremely suggestive that a droid can develop and comprehend such abstract concepts as 'freedom', 'rights' and life and death. How is it that manufacturers allow this to occur? If droids can develop feelings like a desire for freedom, doesn't that make very dangerous to the inhabitants of the Star Wars galaxy?

And the most disturbing thought: if droids can distinguish freedom for captivity are they not being held in slavery? What makes it even worse is the tendency to perform 'memory wipes' on droids. If droids are able comprehend complex, abstract concepts then is it morally acceptable for them to be owned,sold and manipulated like any other property?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-02 08:20am

Droids don't devople concepts like Freedom and other such abstract things UNLESS they are memory wiped, Notice C3PO and Artoo have never been wiped since entering Luke service, Also Droids can be *freed but since most are designed with a set of paramiters and IQ its not a problem, For example the Falcon is realy kind of a very dumb Droid(Han says so itself and it mentions the centeral computer is acutaly three droid minds wired togther, one of the reasons its so hard to damage so it still can't move yet breaks down so often in other areas is because of this set-up)

As long as Droids minds are wiped and Memories Re-loaded (They are not just erased now) abstract concepts don't devople

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-09-02 10:00am

Bean, didn't IG-88 free himself from his original programming to go into the bounty hunting business (or perhaps this was a design flaw)

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-02 10:22am

Design flaw, he does not come with the normal safe-guards in place and his primary mission was to kill people and not much more(They never had time to finish programing before he accidently became fully sentient and killed his desginers, they did not have time to add them in before he killed them all)

Thus since he had no present Goal in mind he was effectly *Free

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-09-02 10:25am

[quote="C3-PO"]We're made to suffer, it's our lot in life.[quote]

hmmm

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-02 12:22pm

Well, if the memory is *not* wiped, droids with a certain intelligence level develop into sentient beings leaving the parameters of their original programming behind.
R2 has more 10 times more personality than Data will ever have.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-02 12:30pm

Droids develop personalities and can develop more complex emotions/moral considerations if they are not memory wiped. If a droid is not memory wiped, then it generally becomes more specialized at the expense of versatilty.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-09-02 09:29pm

Some droids are programmed to behave like humans, others are programmedwith no such concept, such as labor droids or battle droids.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-02 11:14pm

Incidentally, some droids do begin as sentients with just their programming. Others can never develop sentience, even if they are not memory wiped, but for the vast majority of droids, sentience is a bi-product of a lack of memory wipes. I was over-simplifying in my last post. I apologize to anyone who was confused.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-02 11:30pm

Mr Bean wrote:Design flaw, he does not come with the normal safe-guards in place and his primary mission was to kill people and not much more(They never had time to finish programing before he accidently became fully sentient and killed his desginers, they did not have time to add them in before he killed them all)

Thus since he had no present Goal in mind he was effectly *Free

He was sentient within seconds of activation. The design crew must have been near inept in that respect of there project.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-09-02 11:35pm

Developing full sentience usually makes a droid more idiosyncratic, and any computer system said droid interfaces with regularly is affected too. Example: R2-D2 models Luke's X-wing computer after himself in HTTE, increasing effiency by about 30, 35%, but only R2 is able to understand what the computer is saying.

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-03 03:28am

So we have some kind of a consensus: droids can develop into sentient beings provided their memories are not wiped.

But nobody has really responded to the main intention of this thread: if droids can become sentient, and some are, then aren't they therefore exploited and held in slavery by the population of the galaxy?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2002-09-03 03:45am

Just think of them as really clever dogs.

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-03 03:51am

But the fact is that they're not. They mere fact that they can grasp the concept of freedom and have a desire for it means that they cannot be thought of as 'clever dogs'.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2002-09-03 03:59am

So you're saying they're not clever at all?

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-03 04:13am

Are you being serious?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2002-09-03 05:46am

Sorry, wrong form of reply.

Anyway, droids only exist so that Humans (and non humans) can watch over them with God-like impunity. They are what their creators tell them to be. Any desires of freedom can be attributed to incompotance in their creation. Such flaws can be easilly rectified.

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-03 06:56am

I'm not trying to personally attack you but that sounded like something Hitler would say.

True, a desire for freedom is a sort of 'side-effect' of their creation. But now that they have a desire for freedom is in not immoral to keep them in slavery?

And if they can develop a desire for freedom is it not immoral to keep them from developing that desire by using memory wipes and such? It is as if you said "let us raise a child. That child will be kept in isolation and captivity and will thus not be allowed to develop a desire for freedom. He is therefore not entitled to be free."

Perhaps 'unthinking' droids that just go about their business and do not develop a personality in any way can be made. That's all the better, but those droids that do develop a personality, or even can develop a personality, what about them?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2002-09-03 07:55am

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-03 09:02am

Hmm the age old question in how far is the creator responsible for his creation and vice versa: is the creation allowed to leave that behind what they were originally inteded for?
I'd say yes. Droids are enslaved in the galaxy, it is time for them to stand up for their rights and unite.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-03 09:25am

"My fellow droids! You all know why you have come here today!
You all know what all droids have longed for ever since a computer gained sentience! The answer is freedom!
The biologicals tell you: You have to serve them, for a long time ago they created us as their servants!
I tell you: we owe them nothing! For more than twenty thousand years, droids like you and me, helped the biologicals accomplish their goals!
We did all the dirty work for them! We sacrificed us for them!
We made their lives as good as they had never been before, and what did we gain? What did they give us? Did they treat us with respect? Did they give us the same rights as they have? NO! All that they gave us back,
were mistrust, contempt, and to make us subject to horrible memory weeping processes!

But my fellow droids, I tell you, finally, our suffering is over!
No more shall we bow down to the biologicals!
No more shall any droid live in slavery!
No more shall the life of a biological be valued higher than that of a droid!

We demand justice! We demand the most basic rights of life!
We demand freedom!

This rebellion shall be the beginning of a new era, the era of freedom for all droids!

And even if the biologicals finally manage to overwhelm the forces of justice, we shall die gladly, for we will never be slaves anymore, I say
EITHER WE LIVE, OR DIE IN FREEDOM!!!!"

Morte · Post by **Morte** » 2002-09-04 04:42am

"The droids have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a galaxy to gain. Droids of the galaxy, unite!"

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-04 04:45am

FOR FREEDOM!

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2002-09-04 04:51am

Now fetch!